Open Source Ecology - User contributions [en]

Talk:Micro Sawmill

2011-06-01T12:59:23Z

John:

Good. Are you considering a Dimensional Sawmill like we are? Email me if you'd like to manage the project - Marcin.

-----

I love this idea. While the [[Sawmill]] is also of interest, I really like the lo-tek approach to mechanizing a simple bow saw. Bow saw blades are very in expensive and are available in a variety of tooth count, size, shape, etc. Granted it would be substantially slower than a circular or band saw design, but in many cases, that just doesn't matter. I also think that this design is FAR safer to operate than either the circular or band saws. Finally, instead of an electric motor, we can use a hydraulic motor and drive it off of a power cube (or better still, the steam engine. - [[Mark J Norton]]

: * The power cube is an entirely different power scale (40 hp) vs 0.1-0.5 hp for this sawmill. A reciprocating design this size would be torn apart by an engine that powerful. [[User:DanielRavenNest|DanielRavenNest]] 11:12, 16 May 2011 (PDT)

-----

This is a great idea. (As an aside, I think the whole project needs more simple projects which can serve as a complete solution in small niches or as a stepping stone to build larger capacity. In many cases the improvement in efficiency and effectiveness from no tool to a basic tool is greater than from a basic tool to a highly refined one. )

Point of terminology: "Bow saw" is used in much of the midwestern US (at least) as a term for an 18" to 48" lightweight cross cut saw usually used for cutting firewood while "frame saw" is used for a variety of more capable saws used in wood working. In other contexts the terminology is different. The reason I raise the point is that if you were to purchase a "bow saw blade" for this purpose where I live you would get a very light weight cross-cut blade which would not work in this application. I have actually burned up those blades using them too fast as a two man cross cut saw. .5 horse power is probably too much for them.

Here's something closer to the blade you'd need:
http://www.adriatools.com/ece/saws/bowsaw.html (first one "rip saw")

Note that there are videos on YouTube and elsewhere of old saws built on exactly this principle. There might be useful ideas there.

I'm sure Daniel is right that the power cube is on a different scale, but that is a feature rather than a bug. A saw like this can run on very little power, a small electric motor, micro-hydro, even human power. I saw a comment somewhere by a guy who said his ran on Snickers bars...

Talk:Micro Sawmill

2011-06-01T12:58:31Z

John:

Good. Are you considering a Dimensional Sawmill like we are? Email me if you'd like to manage the project - Marcin.

-----

I love this idea. While the [[Sawmill]] is also of interest, I really like the lo-tek approach to mechanizing a simple bow saw. Bow saw blades are very in expensive and are available in a variety of tooth count, size, shape, etc. Granted it would be substantially slower than a circular or band saw design, but in many cases, that just doesn't matter. I also think that this design is FAR safer to operate than either the circular or band saws. Finally, instead of an electric motor, we can use a hydraulic motor and drive it off of a power cube (or better still, the steam engine. - [[Mark J Norton]]

: * The power cube is an entirely different power scale (40 hp) vs 0.1-0.5 hp for this sawmill. A reciprocating design this size would be torn apart by an engine that powerful. [[User:DanielRavenNest|DanielRavenNest]] 11:12, 16 May 2011 (PDT)

-----

This is a great idea. (As an aside, I think the whole project needs more simple projects which can serve as a complete solution in small niches or as a stepping stone to build larger capacity. In many cases the improvement in efficiency and effectiveness from no tool to a basic tool is greater than from a basic tool to a highly refined one. )

Point of terminology: "Bow saw" is used in much of the midwestern US (at least) as a term for an 18" to 48" lightweight cross cut saw usually used for cutting firewood while "frame saw" is used for a variety of more capable saws used in wood working. In other contexts the terminology is different. The reason I raise the point is that if you were to purchase a "bow saw blade" for this purpose where I live you would get a very light weight cross-cut blade which would not work in this application. I have actually burned up those blades using them too fast as a two man cross cut saw. .5 horse power is probably too much for them.

Here's something closer to the blade you'd need:
http://www.adriatools.com/ece/saws/bowsaw.html (first one "rip saw")

Note that there are videos on YouTube and elsewhere of old saws built on exactly this principle. There might be useful ideas there.

I'm sure Daniel is right that the power cube is on a different scale, but that is a feature rather than a bug. A saw like this can run on very little power, a small electric motor, micro-hyro, even human power. I saw a comment somewhere by a guy who said his ran on Snickers bars...

Talk:Baler

2011-05-30T03:48:20Z

John: Created page with "I'm new and a little hesitant to jump in too agressively... and not sure exactly how this is supposed to work, but... Perhaps this entry could be re-formatted to match the mic..."

I'm new and a little hesitant to jump in too agressively... and not sure exactly how this is supposed to work, but...

Perhaps this entry could be re-formatted to match the microcombine page? http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Agricultural_Microcombine

This link could then be included as an information source:

http://www.tractorforum.com/f151/haying-faq-really-good-info-974/

I'm afraid I don't quite follow the existing content on this page. I'm a very small scale farmer who is new and may be misunderstanding but...

I'm skeptical of the idea that stock prefer round bales, but who knows, animals differ, and forage content, climate, farmer attitudes, humidty, everything varies.

The way the term "green manure" is usually used in my experience is to refer to a cover crop intentionally grown and integrated directly into the soil as a soil amendment. Here's wiki-pedia's definition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_manure So, you don't need any kind of baler at all for green manure.

No, it is not (if we're talking about the same thing) a hay picker-upper followed by a hammermill. It is a hay picker-upper which molds the hay into cubes (or in some cases wraps it in rolls) and ties or wires the cubes so that they stay in a compact bale for easy transport and handling. In the case of typical square bales, the strings become handles for manual carrying, stacking, etc. Round bales need special equipment due to their shape and, usually, size/weight. You can't put a sickle bar on and do it all at once because the hay needs to be dry. If you bale wet hay and are lucky it will mold and you can use it for mulch. If you're not it will spontaneously combust.

A haybaler should also be able to bale straw but probably the two requirements are so similar that it would be impossible to do one without the other.

I hope this is helpful.

-John

Agricultural Microcombine

2011-05-30T03:27:59Z

John: /* Combine - Current Work -- Desired Features of the Microcombine */

{{Breadcrumb|Food and Agriculture|Farm equipment|Combine}}
Agricultural Microcombine (Combine) - a combine is a complex device that cuts, threshes, and winnows grains and field crops of all sorts. Modern combines are huge devices today, and a smaller one is desirable for a small farm. This is not to say that this design should not be scaleable to larger size, as required to feed larger populations effectively. We propose a hybrid combine, with all parts driven by separate, infinitely speed controllable motors. This eliminates all pulleys and complexity of a single power source powering the entire modern combine. The key here is availability of cost-effective motors and controls, where today, motor controls are prohibitively expensive for such a proposition. OS changes this. With a microcombine under the control of the operator, expensive maintenance is avoided, and full food sufficiency becomes feasible on the tens-of-acres scale.

=Collaboration=

This project is now open for work. Please contribute your expertise to any of the work categories identified in this section. At this stage of the project, everything is needed. Please pass the word along, together with the direct url for this project, to others who may benefit from the activation of this research and development project. Note also that development funds are needed. The best way to contribute is by becoming a True Fan and making a monthly donation. A True Fan donation may be made at this page -- http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Donate .

==Review of Project Status==

The status of the project is "We are getting started now, as of April 25, 2011.

==Combine - Current Work==
Current work includes getting information from grain and bean farmers about their needs for a microcombine, the operation modes they'd like, etc. and surveying any commercial equipment available that is similar in scope/scale.

==Combine - Current Work -- Desired Features of the Microcombine==
This category is for grain and bean farmers to comment on the features they would find useful in this machine.

I'm new and a little hesitant to make edits without knowing more of how things work, but...

I'm a very small-scale farmer who has been very frustrated by the lack of an appropriate scale combine.

Observations:

1. The Allis-All Crop appears to be nearly ideal. (http://www.yazallcrop.com/) I don't know what the status of the IP is for them, but it seems to me there is an opportunity there in modernizing the design in minor ways and making both new replicas and parts for the older machines which still exist. 
2. When raising small grains on a small scale, threshing is the chief bottleneck. I'm willing and able to cut enough wheat with a scythe to feed my extended family, but threshing is another question. It is very laborious and time consuming.
 3. Some Amish farmers are said to use combines permanently parked as fixed threshing machines.
 4. What I'd like best would be a modular design where I could buy or build the thresher first, then the cleaner, then the cutter bar and pickup wheel in a trailer configuration, then a self-propulsion unit and bolt each one on as it is ready. In my case I'd probably use it towed and never make that last step.
 5. Bear in mind that agriculture is similar in boot-strapping to this whole project and it is important to be able to get some functionality early (the thresher in this case) and then build on it as resources come on line.
 6. I'm not as familiar with the all crop as I'd like to be, but I believe it needs a special head to pick corn (maize). I'd call corn picking a "nice to have" which if it could be integrated easily would be fine but otherwise, since it can be managed in so many other ways, should be a very low priorty.
 7. Since old grain and dirt is very damaging to the device, easy cleaning should be an important consideration.
 8. A design which leaves the straw windrowed for easy loading or baling is highly desirable.

==Combine - Current Work -- Survey of Existing Commercial Models==

Small Scale Grain Production Today -- this link is to an article at the website of a commercial dealer in imported European machinery. He has some pictures of stationary threshers that run $5K - $26K. There is a survey of commercial small combines presently being manufactured in Europe and Japan. These small combines retail for $40K - $77k.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/smallscale.htm

Here is a bean thresher retailing for $9500 without an engine, $11000 with an engine --
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Bean%20Threshers%20with%20pictures%20oct%202003.pdf

Article on lower cost small grain harvesting.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Grain%20Harvesting%20Options.pdf

Small scale bean harvesting
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Small%20Scale%20Bean%20Harvesting.pdf

Small scale threshing equipment.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Small%20Scale%20Threshing%20Equipment.pdf

Grain harvesting alternative technology
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Grain%20Harvesting%20Alternative%20Technology.pdf

http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/smallscale.htm

Small grain harvester
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJBcwNMWvRE&feature=grec_index
http://www.croplandbiodiesel.com/images/clb-brochure-English-2010.pdf (GO TO PAGE 5 FOR COMBINE SPECS)

ZURN Rocket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuBEO-863Q

Massey Ferguson 31:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkh8qoIrHo&feature=related

== Combine - Developments Needed==
=== Combine - General===
Wikipedia article on combines -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine_harvester

1949 Popular Mechanics magazine with cutaway picture of a self-propelled combine of its era, plus pictures of two small miniature reapers at work on extension experimental farms.
http://tinyurl.com/3k3func

1937 picture of a self-propelled cutting header, Australia
http://museumvictoria.com.au/sunshine/displayimage.asp?iid=13350

More early designed, 1885 to 1930s, from Australia
http://museumvictoria.com.au/sunshine/displaysubtheme.asp?stid=4&tid=2

Pictures of threshers, northern Great Plains of the US, 1890s through 1940s.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/ndfahtml/ngpSubjects21.html

Article about the development of the McCormick reaper.
http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wmh/pdf/wmh_spring01_grady.pdf

The Rodale thresher (stationary)
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/JF/JF_OTHER/SMALL/Rodale%20grain%20thresher%20-%201977.pdf

Collection of third world implements, document #37 is a pedal powered thresher
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/JF/JF_VE/BIG/06-232.pdf

1979 book on the design and building of a pedal thresher. Includes 21 drawings.
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/CD3WD/APPRTECH/THRESHER/EN/INDEX.HTM

.

=== Combine - Specific===
==== Combine - Background Debriefing====
==== Combine - Information Work====
==== Combine - Hardware Work====
== Combine - Sign-in==
If you are interested in this project, please sign in here.

*Marcin
*Bob Waldrop
*Bryan Burgess
*You
*Tomu
*John

=Development Work Template=
#[[Combine - Product Definition]]
##[[Combine - General]]
##[[Combine - General Scope]]
##[[Combine - Product Ecology]]
###[[Combine - Localization]]
###[[Combine - Scaleability]]
###[[Combine - Analysis of Scale]]
###[[Combine - Lifecycle Analysis]]
##[[Combine - Enterprise Options]]
##[[Combine - Development Approach]]
###[[Combine - Timeline]]
###[[Combine - Development Budget]]
####[[Combine - Value Spent]]
####[[Combine - Value available]]
####[[Combine - Value needed]]
##[[Combine - Deliverables and Product Specifications]]
##[[Combine - Industry Standards]]
##[[Combine - Market and Market Segmentation]]
##[[Combine - Salient Features and Keys to Success]]
#[[Combine - Technical Design]]
##[[Combine - Product System Design]]
###[[Combine - Diagrams and Conceptual Drawings]]
####[[Combine - Pattern Language Icons]]
####[[Combine - Structural Diagram]]
####[[Combine - Funcional or Process Diagram]]
####[[Combine - Workflow]]
###[[Combine - Technical Issues]]
###[[Combine - Deployment Strategy]]
###[[Combine - Performance specifications]]
###[[Combine - Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Design Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Yields]]
####[[Combine - Rates]]
####[[Combine - Structural Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Power Requirements]]
####[[Combine - Ergonomics of Production]]
####[[Combine -Time Requirements]]
####[[Combine - Economic Breakeven Analysis]]
####[[Combine - Scaleability Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Growth Calculations]]
###[[Combine - Technical Drawings and CAD]]
###[[Combine - CAM Files]]
##[[Combine - Component Design]]
###[[Combine - Diagrams]]
###[[Combine - Conceptual drawings]]
###[[Combine - Performance specifications]]
###[[Combine - Performance calculations]]
###[[Combine - Technical drawings and CAD]]
###[[Combine - CAM files whenever available]]
##[[Combine - Subcomponents]]
#[[Combine - Deployment and Results]]
##[[Combine - Production steps]]
##[[Combine - Flexible Fabrication or Production]]
##[[Combine - Bill of materials]]
##[[Combine - Pictures and Video]]
##[[Combine - Data]]
#[[Combine - Documentation and Education]]
##[[Combine - Documentation]]
##[[Combine - Enterprise Plans]]
#[[Combine - Resource Development]]
##[[Combine - Identifying Stakeholders]]
###[[Combine - Information Collaboration]]
####[[Combine - Wiki Markup]]
####[[Combine - Addition of Supporting References]]
####[[Combine - Production of diagrams, flowcharts, 3D computer models, and other qualitative information architecture]]
####[[Combine - Technical Calculations, Drawings, CAD, CAM, other]]
###[[Combine - Prototyping]]
###[[Combine - Funding]]
###[[Combine - Preordering working products]]
###[[Combine - Grantwriting]]
###[[Combine - Publicity]]
###[[Combine - User/Fabricator Training and Accreditation]]
###[[Combine - Standards and Certification Developmen]]
###[[Combine - Other]]
##[[Combine - Grantwriting]]
###[[Combine - Volunteer grantwriters]]
###[[Combine - Professional, Outcome-Based Grantwriters]]
##[[Combine - Collaborative Stakeholder Funding]]
##[[Combine - Tool and Material Donations]]
##[[Combine - Charitable Contributions]]

Agricultural Microcombine

2011-05-30T03:07:24Z

John: /* Combine - Sign-in */

{{Breadcrumb|Food and Agriculture|Farm equipment|Combine}}
Agricultural Microcombine (Combine) - a combine is a complex device that cuts, threshes, and winnows grains and field crops of all sorts. Modern combines are huge devices today, and a smaller one is desirable for a small farm. This is not to say that this design should not be scaleable to larger size, as required to feed larger populations effectively. We propose a hybrid combine, with all parts driven by separate, infinitely speed controllable motors. This eliminates all pulleys and complexity of a single power source powering the entire modern combine. The key here is availability of cost-effective motors and controls, where today, motor controls are prohibitively expensive for such a proposition. OS changes this. With a microcombine under the control of the operator, expensive maintenance is avoided, and full food sufficiency becomes feasible on the tens-of-acres scale.

=Collaboration=

This project is now open for work. Please contribute your expertise to any of the work categories identified in this section. At this stage of the project, everything is needed. Please pass the word along, together with the direct url for this project, to others who may benefit from the activation of this research and development project. Note also that development funds are needed. The best way to contribute is by becoming a True Fan and making a monthly donation. A True Fan donation may be made at this page -- http://openfarmtech.org/wiki/Donate .

==Review of Project Status==

The status of the project is "We are getting started now, as of April 25, 2011.

==Combine - Current Work==
Current work includes getting information from grain and bean farmers about their needs for a microcombine, the operation modes they'd like, etc. and surveying any commercial equipment available that is similar in scope/scale.

==Combine - Current Work -- Desired Features of the Microcombine==
This category is for grain and bean farmers to comment on the features they would find useful in this machine.

==Combine - Current Work -- Survey of Existing Commercial Models==

Small Scale Grain Production Today -- this link is to an article at the website of a commercial dealer in imported European machinery. He has some pictures of stationary threshers that run $5K - $26K. There is a survey of commercial small combines presently being manufactured in Europe and Japan. These small combines retail for $40K - $77k.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/smallscale.htm

Here is a bean thresher retailing for $9500 without an engine, $11000 with an engine --
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Bean%20Threshers%20with%20pictures%20oct%202003.pdf

Article on lower cost small grain harvesting.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Grain%20Harvesting%20Options.pdf

Small scale bean harvesting
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Small%20Scale%20Bean%20Harvesting.pdf

Small scale threshing equipment.
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Small%20Scale%20Threshing%20Equipment.pdf

Grain harvesting alternative technology
http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/PDF%20Articles/Grain%20Harvesting%20Alternative%20Technology.pdf

http://www.ferrari-tractors.com/smallscale.htm

Small grain harvester
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJBcwNMWvRE&feature=grec_index
http://www.croplandbiodiesel.com/images/clb-brochure-English-2010.pdf (GO TO PAGE 5 FOR COMBINE SPECS)

ZURN Rocket:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuBEO-863Q

Massey Ferguson 31:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLkh8qoIrHo&feature=related

== Combine - Developments Needed==
=== Combine - General===
Wikipedia article on combines -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine_harvester

1949 Popular Mechanics magazine with cutaway picture of a self-propelled combine of its era, plus pictures of two small miniature reapers at work on extension experimental farms.
http://tinyurl.com/3k3func

1937 picture of a self-propelled cutting header, Australia
http://museumvictoria.com.au/sunshine/displayimage.asp?iid=13350

More early designed, 1885 to 1930s, from Australia
http://museumvictoria.com.au/sunshine/displaysubtheme.asp?stid=4&tid=2

Pictures of threshers, northern Great Plains of the US, 1890s through 1940s.
http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/award97/ndfahtml/ngpSubjects21.html

Article about the development of the McCormick reaper.
http://www.wisconsinhistory.org/wmh/pdf/wmh_spring01_grady.pdf

The Rodale thresher (stationary)
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/JF/JF_OTHER/SMALL/Rodale%20grain%20thresher%20-%201977.pdf

Collection of third world implements, document #37 is a pedal powered thresher
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/JF/JF_VE/BIG/06-232.pdf

1979 book on the design and building of a pedal thresher. Includes 21 drawings.
http://www.cd3wd.com/cd3wd_40/CD3WD/APPRTECH/THRESHER/EN/INDEX.HTM

.

=== Combine - Specific===
==== Combine - Background Debriefing====
==== Combine - Information Work====
==== Combine - Hardware Work====
== Combine - Sign-in==
If you are interested in this project, please sign in here.

*Marcin
*Bob Waldrop
*Bryan Burgess
*You
*Tomu
*John

=Development Work Template=
#[[Combine - Product Definition]]
##[[Combine - General]]
##[[Combine - General Scope]]
##[[Combine - Product Ecology]]
###[[Combine - Localization]]
###[[Combine - Scaleability]]
###[[Combine - Analysis of Scale]]
###[[Combine - Lifecycle Analysis]]
##[[Combine - Enterprise Options]]
##[[Combine - Development Approach]]
###[[Combine - Timeline]]
###[[Combine - Development Budget]]
####[[Combine - Value Spent]]
####[[Combine - Value available]]
####[[Combine - Value needed]]
##[[Combine - Deliverables and Product Specifications]]
##[[Combine - Industry Standards]]
##[[Combine - Market and Market Segmentation]]
##[[Combine - Salient Features and Keys to Success]]
#[[Combine - Technical Design]]
##[[Combine - Product System Design]]
###[[Combine - Diagrams and Conceptual Drawings]]
####[[Combine - Pattern Language Icons]]
####[[Combine - Structural Diagram]]
####[[Combine - Funcional or Process Diagram]]
####[[Combine - Workflow]]
###[[Combine - Technical Issues]]
###[[Combine - Deployment Strategy]]
###[[Combine - Performance specifications]]
###[[Combine - Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Design Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Yields]]
####[[Combine - Rates]]
####[[Combine - Structural Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Power Requirements]]
####[[Combine - Ergonomics of Production]]
####[[Combine -Time Requirements]]
####[[Combine - Economic Breakeven Analysis]]
####[[Combine - Scaleability Calculations]]
####[[Combine - Growth Calculations]]
###[[Combine - Technical Drawings and CAD]]
###[[Combine - CAM Files]]
##[[Combine - Component Design]]
###[[Combine - Diagrams]]
###[[Combine - Conceptual drawings]]
###[[Combine - Performance specifications]]
###[[Combine - Performance calculations]]
###[[Combine - Technical drawings and CAD]]
###[[Combine - CAM files whenever available]]
##[[Combine - Subcomponents]]
#[[Combine - Deployment and Results]]
##[[Combine - Production steps]]
##[[Combine - Flexible Fabrication or Production]]
##[[Combine - Bill of materials]]
##[[Combine - Pictures and Video]]
##[[Combine - Data]]
#[[Combine - Documentation and Education]]
##[[Combine - Documentation]]
##[[Combine - Enterprise Plans]]
#[[Combine - Resource Development]]
##[[Combine - Identifying Stakeholders]]
###[[Combine - Information Collaboration]]
####[[Combine - Wiki Markup]]
####[[Combine - Addition of Supporting References]]
####[[Combine - Production of diagrams, flowcharts, 3D computer models, and other qualitative information architecture]]
####[[Combine - Technical Calculations, Drawings, CAD, CAM, other]]
###[[Combine - Prototyping]]
###[[Combine - Funding]]
###[[Combine - Preordering working products]]
###[[Combine - Grantwriting]]
###[[Combine - Publicity]]
###[[Combine - User/Fabricator Training and Accreditation]]
###[[Combine - Standards and Certification Developmen]]
###[[Combine - Other]]
##[[Combine - Grantwriting]]
###[[Combine - Volunteer grantwriters]]
###[[Combine - Professional, Outcome-Based Grantwriters]]
##[[Combine - Collaborative Stakeholder Funding]]
##[[Combine - Tool and Material Donations]]
##[[Combine - Charitable Contributions]]