CNC Torch Table v21.08 Data Collection - Revision history

Marcin: /* Conclusions */

2021-11-20T17:51:26Z

Conclusions

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:51, 20 November 2021
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	*We can improve system performance by decreasing resistance. V-groove bearings would achieve this.		*We can improve system performance by decreasing resistance. V-groove bearings would achieve this.
	*For higher machining force in general - we need geardown, stronger motors, more motors - in addition to the less resitance.		*For higher machining force in general - we need geardown, stronger motors, more motors - in addition to the less resitance.
			*Practicality limits are double sided drive and dual axis per degree of freedom - 4 motors total. For machines of larger force - geardown would be essential.

	=Blade Plots=		=Blade Plots=

Marcin: /* Conclusion */

2021-11-20T17:49:46Z

Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:49, 20 November 2021
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	=~~Conclusion~~=		=Conclusions=
	*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.		*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.
	*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.		*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.
	*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet. It will help for tooth jump force - it's a way to increase drive other than via 2x geardown and is a simple solution in our current system to get higher force at $40 per axis, with minimum addition of system complexity.		*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet. It will help for tooth jump force - it's a way to increase drive other than via 2x geardown and is a simple solution in our current system to get higher force at $40 per axis, with minimum addition of system complexity.
	*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer. With steel belt - backlash is 1-2 mm		*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer. With steel belt - backlash is 1-2 mm
			*We can improve system performance by decreasing resistance. V-groove bearings would achieve this.
			*For higher machining force in general - we need geardown, stronger motors, more motors - in addition to the less resitance.

	=Blade Plots=		=Blade Plots=

Marcin: /* Conclusion */

2021-11-20T17:44:24Z

Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:44, 20 November 2021
Line 2:		Line 2:
	*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.		*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.
	*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.		*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.
	*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet. It will help for tooth jump force.		*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet. It will help for tooth jump force - it's a way to increase drive other than via 2x geardown and is a simple solution in our current system to get higher force at $40 per axis, with minimum addition of system complexity.
	*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer. With steel belt - backlash is 1-2 mm		*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer. With steel belt - backlash is 1-2 mm

Marcin: /* Conclusion */

2021-11-20T17:42:48Z

Conclusion

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:42, 20 November 2021
Line 2:		Line 2:
	*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.		*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.
	*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.		*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.
	*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet.		*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet. It will help for tooth jump force.
	*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer.		*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer. With steel belt - backlash is 1-2 mm

	=Blade Plots=		=Blade Plots=

Marcin: /* Blade Plots */

2021-11-20T17:41:41Z

Blade Plots

← Older revision		Revision as of 17:41, 20 November 2021
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			=Conclusion=
			*Static resistance is significant - about 20 lb. This is roughly consistent with gantry weight of 60-80 lb and 0.1-0.3 friction coefficient of oiled bronze bushings.
			*Thus, motor strength is important and for 300 oz in steppers - geardowns is suggested.
			*Double sided drive may help - not tested yet.
			*Steel belts are definitely helpful. Nylon belts - before motion - belt stretch happens and backlash is on the order of 1-5 mm on 6' 3D printer.

	=Blade Plots=		=Blade Plots=
	*Image - [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPAYU4Oc8yW8n1QCJzG7E-0H89xkBJjLLH-V3j6LO5da7WgJX7rMXhopnmJQ4oHxw/photo/AF1QipOYDbbfZrrovXglzP0taJEz8xAjUscz47r6vpm4?key=ZVZYOWZOc0c1MHVNR2RlUWw2TURYa2VfNjZfSjJR]		*Image - [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPAYU4Oc8yW8n1QCJzG7E-0H89xkBJjLLH-V3j6LO5da7WgJX7rMXhopnmJQ4oHxw/photo/AF1QipOYDbbfZrrovXglzP0taJEz8xAjUscz47r6vpm4?key=ZVZYOWZOc0c1MHVNR2RlUWw2TURYa2VfNjZfSjJR]

Marcin: /* Friction */

2021-11-15T23:00:44Z

Friction

← Older revision		Revision as of 23:00, 15 November 2021
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			=Blade Plots=
			*Image - [https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPAYU4Oc8yW8n1QCJzG7E-0H89xkBJjLLH-V3j6LO5da7WgJX7rMXhopnmJQ4oHxw/photo/AF1QipOYDbbfZrrovXglzP0taJEz8xAjUscz47r6vpm4?key=ZVZYOWZOc0c1MHVNR2RlUWw2TURYa2VfNjZfSjJR]

	=Friction=		=Friction=
	*11/14/21 gets us 13-23 lb friction on Y1. At times static friction is overwhelming and axis doesn't start. X motion is stronger. 20 lb stopping force is available at 500 mm/sec on x and y. Z had no problems (due to slow speed?)		*11/14/21 gets us 13-23 lb friction on Y1. At times static friction is overwhelming and axis doesn't start. X motion is stronger. 20 lb stopping force is available at 500 mm/sec on x and y. Z had no problems (due to slow speed?)

Marcin: /* More */

2021-11-13T09:45:36Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:45, 13 November 2021
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	*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys		*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys
	*Low current version [https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE-Current-Stepper-340oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPKH6/ref=sxin_20_ac_m_pm?ac_md=2-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNDAgYW5kICQ1MA%3D%3D-ac_m_pm_pm_pm&crid=29BF8SLIXZNZH&cv_ct_cx=nema+23&keywords=nema+23&pd_rd_i=B00PNEPKH6&pd_rd_r=5be57051-efd5-4fb0-b5fd-edca7b315e2e&pd_rd_w=8vu2B&pd_rd_wg=YTN7s&pf_rd_p=4f284e2c-46f1-449d-8178-8a70f5907d38&pf_rd_r=Y213KRYV877M186AJ609&psc=1&qid=1636795477&sprefix=nema+23%2Caps%2C149&sr=1-2-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d]. 54 lb. Larger motor. Has almost 20 lb extra drive. Strategy - tooth jump makes HTD 3 mm pitch not a great option. Double sided drive would be a better solution. However, at higher speed (3000 mm/sec), torque reduction of motor is significant. Is that the drawback of low-current motors? More rapid drop of torque-rpm curve?		*Low current version [https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE-Current-Stepper-340oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPKH6/ref=sxin_20_ac_m_pm?ac_md=2-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNDAgYW5kICQ1MA%3D%3D-ac_m_pm_pm_pm&crid=29BF8SLIXZNZH&cv_ct_cx=nema+23&keywords=nema+23&pd_rd_i=B00PNEPKH6&pd_rd_r=5be57051-efd5-4fb0-b5fd-edca7b315e2e&pd_rd_w=8vu2B&pd_rd_wg=YTN7s&pf_rd_p=4f284e2c-46f1-449d-8178-8a70f5907d38&pf_rd_r=Y213KRYV877M186AJ609&psc=1&qid=1636795477&sprefix=nema+23%2Caps%2C149&sr=1-2-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d]. 54 lb. Larger motor. Has almost 20 lb extra drive. Strategy - tooth jump makes HTD 3 mm pitch not a great option. Double sided drive would be a better solution. However, at higher speed (3000 mm/sec), torque reduction of motor is significant. Is that the drawback of low-current motors? More rapid drop of torque-rpm curve?
			*This article implies that we may need higher voltage in case of rapid dropoff of torque - [https://www.controleng.com/articles/stepper-motor-torque-basics/]

Marcin: /* More */

2021-11-13T09:31:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:31, 13 November 2021
Line 33:		Line 33:
	=More=		=More=
	*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys		*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys
	*Low current version [https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE-Current-Stepper-340oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPKH6/ref=sxin_20_ac_m_pm?ac_md=2-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNDAgYW5kICQ1MA%3D%3D-ac_m_pm_pm_pm&crid=29BF8SLIXZNZH&cv_ct_cx=nema+23&keywords=nema+23&pd_rd_i=B00PNEPKH6&pd_rd_r=5be57051-efd5-4fb0-b5fd-edca7b315e2e&pd_rd_w=8vu2B&pd_rd_wg=YTN7s&pf_rd_p=4f284e2c-46f1-449d-8178-8a70f5907d38&pf_rd_r=Y213KRYV877M186AJ609&psc=1&qid=1636795477&sprefix=nema+23%2Caps%2C149&sr=1-2-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d]		*Low current version [https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE-Current-Stepper-340oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPKH6/ref=sxin_20_ac_m_pm?ac_md=2-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNDAgYW5kICQ1MA%3D%3D-ac_m_pm_pm_pm&crid=29BF8SLIXZNZH&cv_ct_cx=nema+23&keywords=nema+23&pd_rd_i=B00PNEPKH6&pd_rd_r=5be57051-efd5-4fb0-b5fd-edca7b315e2e&pd_rd_w=8vu2B&pd_rd_wg=YTN7s&pf_rd_p=4f284e2c-46f1-449d-8178-8a70f5907d38&pf_rd_r=Y213KRYV877M186AJ609&psc=1&qid=1636795477&sprefix=nema+23%2Caps%2C149&sr=1-2-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d]. 54 lb. Larger motor. Has almost 20 lb extra drive. Strategy - tooth jump makes HTD 3 mm pitch not a great option. Double sided drive would be a better solution. However, at higher speed (3000 mm/sec), torque reduction of motor is significant. Is that the drawback of low-current motors? More rapid drop of torque-rpm curve?

Marcin: /* More */

2021-11-13T09:26:51Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:26, 13 November 2021
Line 33:		Line 33:
	=More=		=More=
	*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys		*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys
			*Low current version [https://www.amazon.com/STEPPERONLINE-Current-Stepper-340oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPKH6/ref=sxin_20_ac_m_pm?ac_md=2-1-QmV0d2VlbiAkNDAgYW5kICQ1MA%3D%3D-ac_m_pm_pm_pm&crid=29BF8SLIXZNZH&cv_ct_cx=nema+23&keywords=nema+23&pd_rd_i=B00PNEPKH6&pd_rd_r=5be57051-efd5-4fb0-b5fd-edca7b315e2e&pd_rd_w=8vu2B&pd_rd_wg=YTN7s&pf_rd_p=4f284e2c-46f1-449d-8178-8a70f5907d38&pf_rd_r=Y213KRYV877M186AJ609&psc=1&qid=1636795477&sprefix=nema+23%2Caps%2C149&sr=1-2-3f74d940-526b-436f-a83d-f486577edf4d]

Marcin: /* More */

2021-11-13T09:22:14Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 09:22, 13 November 2021
Line 32:		Line 32:

	=More=		=More=
	*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]		*Use larger motors? 4.2A 425 is in [https://www.amazon.com/Torque-Stepper-Motor-425oz-Router/dp/B00PNEPW4C/ref=asc_df_B00PNEPW4C/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=60862048759&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=309793588525&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8915792818954943314&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9023315&hvtargid=pla-571641189318]. This is 71 lb holding with 3/4" pulleys