LifeTrac III/Feedback - Revision history

Matt Maier: /* Tractor vs Skid Steer */

2012-03-09T01:34:07Z

Tractor vs Skid Steer

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:34, 9 March 2012
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	[http://www.ansci.umn.edu/dairy/dinews/11-2-tractor-skidsteer.htm comparison of tractor and skid steer at a dairy.] Bottom line: the tractor is cheaper, safer and longer lasting.		[http://www.ansci.umn.edu/dairy/dinews/11-2-tractor-skidsteer.htm comparison of tractor and skid steer at a dairy.] Bottom line: the tractor is cheaper, safer and longer lasting.

			Tractor
			* easier to get on and off
			* can use some tools skid steer can't
			** brush mower
			** plow
			* can tow
			* better rear visibility

			Skid Steer
			* tighter turning radius
			* wider variety of attachments
			* more expensive
			* really only works on a hard surface (unless tracked)
			* better tool visibility

Matt Maier at 00:42, 9 March 2012

2012-03-09T00:42:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 00:42, 9 March 2012
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	* Articulated/conventional steering with a longer frame design is much more suited for hauling and dragging machinery		* Articulated/conventional steering with a longer frame design is much more suited for hauling and dragging machinery
	* The LifeTrac isn't trying to combine "the benefits of a skid-steer loader and a tractor." What it is actually trying to do is be a cheap tractor. It has to keep the wheelbase of a tractor in order to pull heavy tools. It's got skid-steer because skid-steer is cheaper, simpler and more robust than any other form of steering. All the tools skid-steer loaders use can just as easily be used by a normal agricultural tractor. The primary difference between the designs is that, because a skid-steer loader is not expected to tow anything, it can be made short and squat so it can turn quickly, which allows it to better manipulate the tool it's carrying.		* The LifeTrac isn't trying to combine "the benefits of a skid-steer loader and a tractor." What it is actually trying to do is be a cheap tractor. It has to keep the wheelbase of a tractor in order to pull heavy tools. It's got skid-steer because skid-steer is cheaper, simpler and more robust than any other form of steering. All the tools skid-steer loaders use can just as easily be used by a normal agricultural tractor. The primary difference between the designs is that, because a skid-steer loader is not expected to tow anything, it can be made short and squat so it can turn quickly, which allows it to better manipulate the tool it's carrying.

			=Tractor vs Skid Steer=

			[http://www.ansci.umn.edu/dairy/dinews/11-2-tractor-skidsteer.htm comparison of tractor and skid steer at a dairy.] Bottom line: the tractor is cheaper, safer and longer lasting.

Matt Maier: /* General Comments */

2012-01-29T15:27:52Z

General Comments

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:27, 29 January 2012
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	* Skid steers are very hard on the ground and thus not good for actual farming applications or over grass. However they are great for many other tasks and have a large versatility of tools and attachments otherwise		* Skid steers are very hard on the ground and thus not good for actual farming applications or over grass. However they are great for many other tasks and have a large versatility of tools and attachments otherwise
	* Articulated/conventional steering with a longer frame design is much more suited for hauling and dragging machinery		* Articulated/conventional steering with a longer frame design is much more suited for hauling and dragging machinery
			* The LifeTrac isn't trying to combine "the benefits of a skid-steer loader and a tractor." What it is actually trying to do is be a cheap tractor. It has to keep the wheelbase of a tractor in order to pull heavy tools. It's got skid-steer because skid-steer is cheaper, simpler and more robust than any other form of steering. All the tools skid-steer loaders use can just as easily be used by a normal agricultural tractor. The primary difference between the designs is that, because a skid-steer loader is not expected to tow anything, it can be made short and squat so it can turn quickly, which allows it to better manipulate the tool it's carrying.

Matt Maier: /* Frame */

2012-01-29T14:53:10Z

Frame

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:53, 29 January 2012
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	***We could just drill the hole a bit wider and weld in a piece of round tube with 3/4" inner diameter. That way the force would be taken by the compression strength of the round tube instead of the bending strength of the square tube wall.		***We could just drill the hole a bit wider and weld in a piece of round tube with 3/4" inner diameter. That way the force would be taken by the compression strength of the round tube instead of the bending strength of the square tube wall.
	* Considerable forces on the frame introduce bending moments on bolts which they are not designed to take		* Considerable forces on the frame introduce bending moments on bolts which they are not designed to take
			**Is there room for more than one bolt? Two bolts would help turn the force in a push-pull thing instead of a bending thing.
	* Questionable engineering practice to place the longitudinal and cross-support members on different planes as it generates additional stress in the design as torsion and bending moments		* Questionable engineering practice to place the longitudinal and cross-support members on different planes as it generates additional stress in the design as torsion and bending moments
	* ''Potential Frame Solutions''		* ''Potential Frame Solutions''

Matt Maier: /* Frame */

2012-01-29T14:50:54Z

Frame

← Older revision		Revision as of 14:50, 29 January 2012
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	* The construction using tubes bolted through the center is not good for dynamic loading as the bolts need to be sufficiently pre-stressed during assembly. This is not possible with thin-walled square tubing		* The construction using tubes bolted through the center is not good for dynamic loading as the bolts need to be sufficiently pre-stressed during assembly. This is not possible with thin-walled square tubing
	** ''Comment: What are the proper forces/torques required in pre-stressing the bolts during assembly? From this we can calculate the required material thickness for square tubing to ensure no deformation during tightening.''		** ''Comment: What are the proper forces/torques required in pre-stressing the bolts during assembly? From this we can calculate the required material thickness for square tubing to ensure no deformation during tightening.''
			***We could just drill the hole a bit wider and weld in a piece of round tube with 3/4" inner diameter. That way the force would be taken by the compression strength of the round tube instead of the bending strength of the square tube wall.
	* Considerable forces on the frame introduce bending moments on bolts which they are not designed to take		* Considerable forces on the frame introduce bending moments on bolts which they are not designed to take
	* Questionable engineering practice to place the longitudinal and cross-support members on different planes as it generates additional stress in the design as torsion and bending moments		* Questionable engineering practice to place the longitudinal and cross-support members on different planes as it generates additional stress in the design as torsion and bending moments

MikeA: /* Comments */

2012-01-29T06:00:17Z

Comments

← Older revision		Revision as of 06:00, 29 January 2012
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	=Comments=		=Comments=
			==LifeTrac III User Review==
			This is a collection of onsite analysis of the design and user input. It also provides potential solutions for the LifeTrac IV and LifeCat

			* '''Non-standard tool loading mechanism means that existing forks and other accessories for Bobcats and such won't work'''
			** ''Redesign to incorporate the Bob-Tach attachment method. Also known as the universal skid loader attachment method.
			** Can try to still keep simple OSE 3-point attachment for use with smaller tools''
			* '''Loading mechanism is too far out'''
			** ''Need to redesign to bring it to just in front of the vehicle. Will need to redesign cylinders and lifting arm accordingly. A bent loader arm will suffice.''
			* '''Wheel assembly and motor is difficult to mount'''
			** ''Change motor to direct coupling to hub. Just rear wheel drive and connected through the tracks. Even with this still need a mechanism for easy attachment for front wheels.''
			** ''Redesign current configuration into a modular unit that can be easily bolted on and off. This is being done with the [http://blog.opensourceecology.org/2012/01/quick-connect-wheels-update/ quick connect wheels] for the LifeTrac IV''
			* '''Feet can touch the ground because there is no bottom plate and is a very large safety hazard'''
			** Mount a bottom skid plate
			* '''No head protection from falling debris'''
			** ''Need a roof plate''
			* '''Seat being so far back makes it difficult to see precisely where loader is for intricate work'''
			** ''Move seat forward to mid level of tractor. But have issues with the bars there and everything. Would likely need to move cross members above frame''
			* '''Controls are difficult'''
			** ''Integrate foot pedals for loader arm and QA plate and rotate hydraulic levers so that they move forward and backwards and are on each side of the user's arms''
			* '''Cross members are visual obstructions'''
			** Move to above top frame members vs below them to improve visability and head clearance
			* '''Tipping stability with lifting heavy objects'''
			** ''Due to straight loader arms, tipping load is very low. Additional weight needs to be mounted as far rearward as possible to increase the tipping load and thus the carrying capacity''
			* '''No analysis done on any of frame members for structural stability under heavy load'''
			** ''FEA needs to be done on the frame. This include an understanding of dynamic load analysis.''
			* '''Stock 3x6" comes in 20' and 40'
			** ''Keep this in mind for any redesign''
			* '''No protection for hydraulic motors from ground objects
			** ''Incorporate protective covering or skid plate between motors and ground

			==OSE Europe Lifetrac Design Safety Discussion==
			Here is the link to the [https://groups.google.com/group/ose-europe/browse_thread/thread/3d0fcd5477ea94a4 full forum discussion].

			===Frame===
			* No engineering analysis done on any components of the frame for the loads encountered
			* When the machines tracks rotate in opposite directions this turns the machine but the load is transferred to the frame. Because the wheels have a gap between them the force is not equally distributed along the bottom of the frame. The force travels through each wheel, to the corners of the base frame square, from there it is transmitted up the vertical frame and along the top square frame, all of the force meets in the center of the top frame along two parallel lines. Here you have placed a very large hole which the loader attaches to. From the top centre of the frame the force from the wheels is then transmitted to the centre of the base frame.
			** ''Comment: Conventional machines which use tracks transfer the load from the track through a series of gears which span the entire length of the track and base frame. A conventional skid loader has the hydraulic lifter attached to a separate frame from the drivers cabin, this improves operator safety from moving parts, improves stability over the entire machine and increases load bearing capacity from the chassis I.e. it doesn't snap in half. The machine is most likely to snap in the middle of the bottom and top struts on which the wheels and loader are mounted. So two sets of forces are meeting at one point. This is the force from the wheels and the force from the loader.''
			* The construction using tubes bolted through the center is not good for dynamic loading as the bolts need to be sufficiently pre-stressed during assembly. This is not possible with thin-walled square tubing
			** ''Comment: What are the proper forces/torques required in pre-stressing the bolts during assembly? From this we can calculate the required material thickness for square tubing to ensure no deformation during tightening.''
			* Considerable forces on the frame introduce bending moments on bolts which they are not designed to take
			* Questionable engineering practice to place the longitudinal and cross-support members on different planes as it generates additional stress in the design as torsion and bending moments
			* ''Potential Frame Solutions''
			** Welding the frame members together
			** Welding a plate to both frame members to they can be bolted together with several bolts
			** Using U-profiles instead of square tubes, You could
			*** weld them
			*** weld a head-plate to the crosswise frame members and bolt it to the longitudinal frame parts
			** Place frame members all in the same plane

			===Wheel Motor Coupling===
			* Alignment between the motor, coupler, shaft and wheel needs to be precise to prevent failure with time due to the high forces involved.

			===Safety===
			* No roll-over protection
			* No floor, side walls, roof, or restraining devices (''Note:'' These should be getting addressed in LifeTrac IV)
			* No independent brake in case of hydraulic pressure loss.

			===General Comments===
			* Trying to have the LifeTrac be both a skid steer and tractor ends up with a design that doesn't do either well
			* Skid steers are very hard on the ground and thus not good for actual farming applications or over grass. However they are great for many other tasks and have a large versatility of tools and attachments otherwise
			* Articulated/conventional steering with a longer frame design is much more suited for hauling and dragging machinery

MikeA: /* Overview */

2012-01-27T04:26:43Z

Overview

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:26, 27 January 2012
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	# Use the "Discussion" tab at the top of this page or any other page		# Use the "Discussion" tab at the top of this page or any other page
	# E-mail the project lead listed on the [[~~LifeCat_1.0~~\| home page]]		# E-mail the project lead listed on the [[LifeTrac III\| home page]]
	# Post your question or concern on the [http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/gvcs-technical-development OSE Forum]		# Post your question or concern on the [http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/gvcs-technical-development OSE Forum]
	# Edit in your comments below. Please ensure you put a date at the start and your name if desired.		# Edit in your comments below. Please ensure you put a date at the start and your name if desired.

	=Comments=		=Comments=

MikeA at 04:25, 27 January 2012

2012-01-27T04:25:32Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 04:25, 27 January 2012
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	{{ToolTemplate2\|ToolParent=LifeTrac\|~~ToolHome~~=LifeTrac III}}		{{ToolTemplate2\|ToolParent=LifeTrac\|ToolName=LifeTrac III}}
	=Overview=		=Overview=
	There are several ways to provide feedback.		There are several ways to provide feedback.

MikeA: Created page with "{{ToolTemplate2|ToolParent=LifeTrac|ToolHome=LifeTrac III}} =Overview= There are several ways to provide feedback. # Use the "Discussion" tab at the top of this page or any othe..."

2012-01-27T04:25:19Z

Created page with "{{ToolTemplate2|ToolParent=LifeTrac|ToolHome=LifeTrac III}} =Overview= There are several ways to provide feedback. # Use the "Discussion" tab at the top of this page or any othe..."

New page

{{ToolTemplate2|ToolParent=LifeTrac|ToolHome=LifeTrac III}}
=Overview=
There are several ways to provide feedback.

# Use the "Discussion" tab at the top of this page or any other page
# E-mail the project lead listed on the [[LifeCat_1.0| home page]]
# Post your question or concern on the [http://forum.opensourceecology.org/categories/gvcs-technical-development OSE Forum]
# Edit in your comments below. Please ensure you put a date at the start and your name if desired.

=Comments=