Productive Recursion - Revision history

Marcin at 20:14, 3 August 2025

2025-08-03T20:14:47Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:14, 3 August 2025
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	'''Productive recursion is when you not only produce goods, but also produce the underlying parts that go into the goods, such as steel, engines, transistors, etc.		'''Productive recursion is when you not only produce goods, but also produce the underlying parts that go into the goods, such as steel, engines, transistors, etc. By substituting [[Open Source Capital]] for capital, we can arrive at [[Zero Marginal Cost]] in hardware, just as has already been achieved in software.'''

	Recursion is a production method used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].		Recursion is a production method used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].

Marcin at 20:31, 8 June 2025

2025-06-08T20:31:25Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:31, 8 June 2025
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	'''Productive recursion is when you not only produce goods, but also produce the underlying parts that go into the goods, such as steel, engines, transistors, etc.		'''Productive recursion is when you not only produce goods, but also produce the underlying parts that go into the goods, such as steel, engines, transistors, etc.

	~~Production methods~~ used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].		Recursion is a production method used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].

	=Introduction=		=Introduction=

Marcin at 20:30, 8 June 2025

2025-06-08T20:30:45Z

← Older revision		Revision as of 20:30, 8 June 2025
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			'''Productive recursion is when you not only produce goods, but also produce the underlying parts that go into the goods, such as steel, engines, transistors, etc.

	Production methods used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].		Production methods used to lower cost of products when simplified for rapid personal/localized fabrication. These rely on open source technology for producing materials instead of buying them, by investing in additional productive capacity to capture a larger part of the value chain. The limit is autonomous production at the cost of solar energy (assuming [[Regenerative Economics]].

Marcin: /* 2022 Addendum */

2024-07-29T13:07:58Z

2022 Addendum

← Older revision		Revision as of 13:07, 29 July 2024
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	==2022 Addendum==		==2022 Addendum==
	Implications are significant. Replacing value with one's own labor is transformative - if one has effective tools, which themselves are open source and thus low cost/lifetime design (LCLD). This means that one is not producing $1k/day, but more, if there is a guaranteed market. Such a guaranteed market would exist in a [[Network State]] which has [[Digito-Physical Backing]] for its currency.		Implications are significant. Replacing value with one's own labor is transformative - if one has effective tools, which themselves are open source and thus low cost/lifetime design (LCLD). This means that one is not producing $1k/day, but more, if there is a guaranteed market. Such a guaranteed market would exist in a [[Network State]] which has [[Digito-Physical Backing]] for its currency.
			===2024 Note===
			Note that this project was stared based on understanding the inefficiency of non-lifetime design equipment (the tractor broke). This was reinforced with a commercial top of the line [[Scag]] zero turn mower in 2024 where the clutch went out after 4 hours of operation on a brand new machine. This reinforces the infeasibility of non-lifetime equipment in any diversified operation. Such an operation would be possible, but it would be very expensive - once more contributing to increased toil as opposed to liberation from uninteresting labor. Once service can be done it house, that actually becomes an interesting proposition because it is faster, cheaper, and more rewarding to the user.

	[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]		[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]

Marcin: /* 2022 Addendum */

2022-08-23T15:21:29Z

2022 Addendum

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:21, 23 August 2022
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	==2022 Addendum==		==2022 Addendum==
	Implications are significant. Replacing value with one's own labor is transformative - if one has effective tools, which themselves are open source and thus low cost/lifetime design (LCLD)		Implications are significant. Replacing value with one's own labor is transformative - if one has effective tools, which themselves are open source and thus low cost/lifetime design (LCLD). This means that one is not producing $1k/day, but more, if there is a guaranteed market. Such a guaranteed market would exist in a [[Network State]] which has [[Digito-Physical Backing]] for its currency.

	[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]		[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]

Marcin: /* Economic Advantage of In-House Ability to Melt Steel */

2022-08-23T15:20:08Z

Economic Advantage of In-House Ability to Melt Steel

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:20, 23 August 2022
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	=Economic Advantage of In-House Ability to Melt Steel=		=Economic Advantage of In-House Ability to Melt Steel=
	We have provided calculations above that – for melting steel from scrap - the cost of labor (not free, but not union, just economics of autonomous economies) required to generate the steel, compared to the value generated - is negligible. Therefore, ability to melt steel allows the owner-producer to capture the entire value of steel as the value of one's labor. This has the practical effect of replacing materials sourcing costs with the cost of scrap steel. Further, this provides an advantage to the customer, as it can be shown that the sales price is reduced by about 40% compared to the off-shelf materials price of the machine by melting scrap steel compared to buying steel from outside suppliers. In absolute terms, the advantage goes from a factor of 10 cost reduction over industry standards to about 20 cost reduction over industry standards.		We have provided calculations above that – for melting steel from scrap - the cost of labor (not free, but not union, just economics of autonomous economies) required to generate the steel, compared to the value generated - is negligible. Therefore, ability to melt steel allows the owner-producer to capture the entire value of steel as the value of one's labor. This has the practical effect of replacing materials sourcing costs with the cost of scrap steel. Further, this provides an advantage to the customer, as it can be shown that the sales price is reduced by about 40% compared to the off-shelf materials price of the machine by melting scrap steel compared to buying steel from outside suppliers. In absolute terms, the advantage goes from a factor of 10 cost reduction over industry standards to about 20 cost reduction over industry standards.

			==2022 Addendum==
			Implications are significant. Replacing value with one's own labor is transformative - if one has effective tools, which themselves are open source and thus low cost/lifetime design (LCLD)

	[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]		[[Category:OS Fab Lab]]

Marcin: /* Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication */

2022-08-23T15:13:39Z

Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:13, 23 August 2022
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	where C is the total cost, C_s is the cost of scrap steel, C_L is the cost of labor, and C_F is the cost of foundry labor.		where C is the total cost, C_s is the cost of scrap steel, C_L is the cost of labor, and C_F is the cost of foundry labor.

	We've observed that C_s is typically C_d/10, where C_d is the cost of a virgin materials for a given device - such as $2k for the CEB press.		We've observed that C_s is typically C_d/10, where C_d is the cost of a virgin (off-the-shelf) materials for a given device - such as $2k for the CEB press.

	C_L is typically C_d, as observed empirically from the CEB press. C_F = $200, or one day's worth of labor at foundry duty, which can produce at most 2400 lbs of cast parts per day, and can produce the necessary steel for most objects in one day - assuming say 8 shots, with multiple castings per shot. The major assumption to prove here is that melting and rolling can be done by that single person - on the same day.		C_L is typically C_d, as observed empirically from the CEB press. C_F = $200, or one day's worth of labor at foundry duty, which can produce at most 2400 lbs of cast parts per day, and can produce the necessary steel for most objects in one day - assuming say 8 shots, with multiple castings per shot. The major assumption to prove here is that melting and rolling can be done by that single person - on the same day.

Marcin: /* Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication */

2022-08-23T15:13:11Z

Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:13, 23 August 2022
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	=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=		=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=

			{{Hint\|Update this for 2022, as our experience actually shows better potential scenarios}}

	Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used. (assumptions - 300 lb melt/hour * 8 hours - 2400 lb virgin steel at 50 cents/lb in 2009)		Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used. (assumptions - 300 lb melt/hour * 8 hours - 2400 lb virgin steel at 50 cents/lb in 2009)

Marcin: /* Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication */

2022-08-23T15:12:20Z

Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:12, 23 August 2022
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	=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=		=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=

	Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used. (assumptions - 300 lb melt/hour * 8 hours - 2400 lb virgin steel at 50 cents/lb in ~~2010~~		Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used. (assumptions - 300 lb melt/hour * 8 hours - 2400 lb virgin steel at 50 cents/lb in 2009)
	Thus, any given device - say $2k in material costs - can be recursed to $400 in labor, or cost/5. To that, one needs to add the value of raw feedstock - say $200 if the $2k device weighs 2000lb, and we assume that scrap steel is 10 cents per pound. On top of $2k, one typically has cost/2 in labor - as for example with the CEB press, we are expecting the machine to require 20-40 hrs in labor at $25/hour - or $500-$1k.		Thus, any given device - say $2k in material costs - can be recursed to $400 in labor (NB 2022 - assumes only 4 hours of work/day in melting), or cost/5. To that, one needs to add the value of raw feedstock - say $200 if the $2k device weighs 2000lb, and we assume that scrap steel is 10 cents per pound. On top of $2k, one typically has cost/2 in labor - as for example with the CEB press, we are expecting the machine to require 20-40 hrs in labor at $25/hour - or $500-$1k.

	So the price formula evolves to:		So the price formula evolves to:
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	'''Let me put this another way: the ''open source recursion price'' of the product (including labor) is approximately equal to the cost of the very virgin materials if these are sourced from the ''mainstream industrial system''!'''		'''Let me put this another way: the ''open source recursion price'' of the product (including labor) is approximately equal to the cost of the very virgin materials if these are sourced from the ''mainstream industrial system''!'''

Marcin: /* Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication */

2022-08-23T15:09:15Z

Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication

← Older revision		Revision as of 15:09, 23 August 2022
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	=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=		=Productive Recursion Formula at $25/hour Labor Rate for Melting and $50/hour for Fabrication=

	Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used.		Based on production rates in a foundry - $1000 per day of value generated (see [[Factor e Live Distillations]] Part 6) - and labor of $25 per hour for that time - or $200 - and one sees a 5:1 ratio of value generated to labor used. (assumptions - 300 lb melt/hour * 8 hours - 2400 lb virgin steel at 50 cents/lb in 2010

	Thus, any given device - say $2k in material costs - can be recursed to $400 in labor, or cost/5. To that, one needs to add the value of raw feedstock - say $200 if the $2k device weighs 2000lb, and we assume that scrap steel is 10 cents per pound. On top of $2k, one typically has cost/2 in labor - as for example with the CEB press, we are expecting the machine to require 20-40 hrs in labor at $25/hour - or $500-$1k.		Thus, any given device - say $2k in material costs - can be recursed to $400 in labor, or cost/5. To that, one needs to add the value of raw feedstock - say $200 if the $2k device weighs 2000lb, and we assume that scrap steel is 10 cents per pound. On top of $2k, one typically has cost/2 in labor - as for example with the CEB press, we are expecting the machine to require 20-40 hrs in labor at $25/hour - or $500-$1k.