Concrete Polishing: Difference between revisions

From Open Source Ecology
Jump to navigation Jump to search
No edit summary
 
(57 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
[[File:polishedconcrete.jpg|600px]].
{{Hint|Polished concrete is considered a green material by [[LEED]]. Polishing provides beautiful finish to standard concrete. It is primarily labor - not exotic materials. 3000 grit is highly polished - [https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/polishing/levels.html]}}
=Wet or Dry=
*Dry advantage - no cleanup and shinier. [http://blog.bartellglobal.com/wet-vs-dry-grinding-and-polishing-concrete#:~:text=It's%20very%20difficult%20to%20achieve,is%20a%20much%20better%20option.]
=About and Materials=
*Pads - [https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tool-Accessories-Abrasives-Polisher-Accessories/Con-Flex/N-5yc1vZc8yeZmmx?storeSelection=]
*Pads - [https://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Power-Tool-Accessories-Abrasives-Polisher-Accessories/Con-Flex/N-5yc1vZc8yeZmmx?storeSelection=]
*Amazon - [https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Polishing-Granite-Concrete-Marble/dp/B071ZTFYYX/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1503952899&sr=8-11&keywords=concrete+polishing+pads]. Hook and loop means velcro attachment of pads.
*Amazon - [https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Polishing-Granite-Concrete-Marble/dp/B071ZTFYYX/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1503952899&sr=8-11&keywords=concrete+polishing+pads]. Hook and loop means velcro attachment of pads.
Line 15: Line 22:
**Hercules- [https://www.harborfreight.com/3-amp-corded-5-in-variable-speed-random-orbital-sander-56458.html]
**Hercules- [https://www.harborfreight.com/3-amp-corded-5-in-variable-speed-random-orbital-sander-56458.html]
**Bauer - [https://www.harborfreight.com/28-amp-5-in-random-orbital-palm-sander-63999.html?cid=paid_google|||63999&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjPaCBhDkARIsAISZN7QTeymKSnblqNTcp8rxczQX-6HunuKpzMCmZxISeBOgqfcz9paiw1QaAslCEALw_wcB]
**Bauer - [https://www.harborfreight.com/28-amp-5-in-random-orbital-palm-sander-63999.html?cid=paid_google|||63999&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=&utm_content=&gclid=Cj0KCQjwjPaCBhDkARIsAISZN7QTeymKSnblqNTcp8rxczQX-6HunuKpzMCmZxISeBOgqfcz9paiw1QaAslCEALw_wcB]
**Performax - Menards $31 - [https://www.menards.com/main/tools/power-tools/sanders/performax-reg-2-8-amp-corded-5-random-orbit-sander/2410972/p-1455974626748-c-10088.htm?tid=-1423682764657118323&ipos=5]
*Start with bulk grinding of rough spots - [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XRMY9XN/ref=sspa_dk_detail_3?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B07XRMY9XN&pd_rd_w=BliCd&pf_rd_p=cbc856ed-1371-4f23-b89d-d3fb30edf66d&pd_rd_wg=08pgS&pf_rd_r=28A6PY7423FRF570PE6N&pd_rd_r=e1a5802d-1c14-4390-97b0-3c53d0cdc36d&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExT0VQNEdWUlNTUEFMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUExMDM4NzQxMVZGMktBTUw4TU1WRSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNDA2Mzg4MVI4VzJVT0hGQjEwQyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbF90aGVtYXRpYyZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=#customerReviews] - using a regular grinder:
<html><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P5D0DEo4KGs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></html>
*Start with 50 grit dry - $10 for one - [https://www.amazon.com/Polishing-Concrete-Terrazzo-Travertine-Countertop/dp/B07KPQYGS3/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&keywords=concrete+diamond+sanding+discs&qid=1616829164&sr=8-5]
=Diamond Cups=
*{{check}}Come up to 9" grinder size - [https://www.amazon.com/Diamond-Grinding-Grinder-Concrete-Granite/product-reviews/B07RXWDVTK/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_viewopt_fmt?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&formatType=all_formats&pageNumber=1]
*$44 for 7" - [https://www.harborfreight.com/7-in-diamond-turbo-cup-wheel-for-angle-grinders-61418.html]
*$33 for 7" [https://www.amazon.com/Grinding-Concrete-Masonry-Diameter-Segments/dp/B017JO7LBA/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=9%2Binch%2Bdiamond%2Bgrinding%2Bwheel&qid=1616830143&sr=8-14&th=1]
*{{check}}$7.40 - [https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B086GW6KJS/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1]
=How to Use an Orbital Sander=
*15 seconds per foot travel rate:
<html><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Gt0pdxoSMPU" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></html>
Lessons:
*collect dust, so you don't get larger abrasive spots from dust clumps
*Go slow - pigtails will shrink
*Calculations - if 15 seconds per foot, we have 39 passes lengthwise for one passthrough - meaning 1248 feet - meaning 5.2 hours per 500 sf pad. Save 20% by not doing under stairs and cabinets, you have 4.7 hours per pass. 5 sander gang gets that down to 1 hour. Definitely could use a holder for 6-10 sanders. If they can be ganged - that would be awesome.
*Don't skimp on the grits - go up more slowly, which is actually faster.
*Get the dust out - it clogs the sandpaper, and dulls it faster as you need to do more work
*Get extra velcro pads
*Store sander with pad on, so you don't flatten velcro hooks.
=Other Options=
*Good thread - [https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401143]
*Car polisher will work, and so will a variable speed grinder with diamond pads.
*Get this grinder with variable speed can be found elsewhere cheaper. [https://www.toolocity.com/5-makita-angle-grinder-variable-speed.aspx]. Pads - [https://www.toolocity.com/4-hurricane-wet-diamond-polishing-pads.aspx]. Pad holder - http://www.toolocity.com/4-back-holder-rigid.aspx
*HF variable speed polisher 1 - $44 - 10A - [https://www.harborfreight.com/7-in-10-amp-variable-speed-polisher-64807.html]
*High speed concrete/steel abrasive pads - 4" - only $6 for 5 - [https://www.menards.com/main/tools/power-tool-accessories/abrasive-wheels/sontax-reg-4-polishing-wheel-5-piece/81714/p-1523864442126.htm]
*7" diamond pads are much more expensive - 800 grit for one - $30 - [https://www.amazon.com/Polishing-Concrete-Travertine-Terrazzo-Countertop/dp/B07KRM24JG/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgUrX7nvZpme2ZvIycxOl4HjTjPdyMXokCr1ZqVKWVoSgV9YSeY38VRoCFzwQAvD_BwE&hvadid=232919957230&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9023315&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7030982730290787120&hvtargid=kwd-341568290852&hydadcr=23785_9915451&keywords=7+inch+concrete+polishing+pads&qid=1616833315&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&smid=A1FGMTXWSPT19O&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyRDE1UFc3WTY0Q05aJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjUzNDkyMUpVOUdDNEk2N1Y5TCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTA0MTY0MlczQkdTRlpUQjUxUyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=]
**'''7 piece for $60''' [https://www.amazon.com/Konfor-Diamond-Polishing-Abrasive-Travertine/dp/B07BP8NJTN/ref=sr_1_5?dchild=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgUrX7nvZpme2ZvIycxOl4HjTjPdyMXokCr1ZqVKWVoSgV9YSeY38VRoCFzwQAvD_BwE&hvadid=232919957230&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9023315&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=7030982730290787120&hvtargid=kwd-341568290852&hydadcr=23785_9915451&keywords=7+inch+concrete+polishing+pads&qid=1616833404&sr=8-5]
**$22 for one - [https://www.toolocity.com/7-shine-plus-dry-diamond-polishing-pads.aspx?gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgZf-RVxFoN_mvPB5LAXix1iAAZ3jWC3mABvCVnNZJoeBIdWzJLXS6BoCPG4QAvD_BwE]
**$30 for 1 - [https://www.shopnsavemart.com/7-inch-diamond-polishing-pads-concrete-granite/dppw07ultd00001p?gclid=CjwKCAjwr_uCBhAFEiwAX8YJgaAmQmzSHXibAI66LEeq6HhkY-Py4L9X-upst6Q-q3HsOxxpJEdzgRoCsCoQAvD_BwE]
**$99 for 7 - [[https://www.amazon.com/PPW266B-Diamond-Polishing-Concrete-Terrazzo/dp/B06Y1F6VJF]]
=Concrete Countertop Details=
*Includes filling voids with concrete fortifier + concrete, then sealer, then wax, and silicone between slabs to fill in cracks. [https://www.menards.com/main/paint/concrete-blacktop-sealers/concrete-repair/akona-reg-concrete-bonding-additive-1-qt/5581320/p-1444445321383-c-5650.htm?tid=8223823943275332674&ipos=28]
<html><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/A0Pd4o8gjfM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></html>
=Going Pro=
*22", 12 pad sander - 500-1000 sf/hr rate - [https://newgrind.com/products/rhino-rl500-2/]. If there are 8 grind steps - that is a whole day job for 500 sf.
*15 amp - 11" width. [https://www.thesweeper.com/pg-280-grinder]
=Densifier and Guard=
<html><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/X8GiF5Er95A" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></html>
*Densifier - lithium based - [https://concretefloorsolutions.com/product/cfs-7937-concrete-densifier/]
*Stain guard - waterproof, probably not breathable - applied before last polishing step - [https://concretefloorsolutions.com/product/cfs-7940-concrete-conditioner-with-stain-guard/]
*Lithium vs silicate densifier - [https://concretesealersreviews.com/sodium-silicate-vs-lithium-silicate/#:~:text=There%20are%20a%20few%20differences,time%20penetrating%20through%20dense%20surfaces.&text=Lithium%20silicates%20react%20faster.,react%20faster%20than%20sodium%20silicates.]. Lithium penetrates deeper.
*Sodium silicate densifier - [https://www.homedepot.com/p/Foundation-Armor-1-gal-Concentrated-Sodium-Silicate-Concrete-Sealer-Hardener-and-Densifier-S20001GAL/205719971?source=shoppingads&locale=en-US&mtc=Shopping-B-F_D24-G-D24-24_12_WATERPROOFERS-Multi-NA-Feed-SMART-NA-NA-FY21_Exterior_SMART&cm_mmc=Shopping-B-F_D24-G-D24-24_12_WATERPROOFERS-Multi-NA-Feed-SMART-NA-NA-FY21_Exterior_SMART-71700000081717307-58700006942061315-92700062508088588&gclid=Cj0KCQjw38-DBhDpARIsADJ3kjnuo8d-zydZiSKZ9RQnUOp1TtYSAN0WFgF4lmNEdrJbFuLxhjwV70gaArGCEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds]
*Colloidal silicates appear to be even better? [https://www.concretedecor.net/departments/grinding-polishing/basic-facts-about-colloidal-silica-densifier/]
=When to Densify?=
*200-400 grit step most of the time. [https://diy.hcconcrete.com/faqs/hardeners-densifiers/#:~:text=Typically%20color%20is%20added%20in,3%20polish%20resin%20diamond%20passes.] Otherwise it doesn't penetrate enough? Or prevents you from buffing properly on the higher-shine grit?
*If really soft - densify early - so it could be shined at all. [https://www.concretenetwork.com/products-polishing/densifiers/]
*How much to add? Until rejection. No controversy on this. Just read the floor. [https://www.concretedecor.net/departments/grinding-polishing/applying-densifiers-feel-good-about-rejection/]
*Start with 5000 PSI concrete, not 3500 PSI - it will polish better [https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2199/finishing-concrete-floors-with-silicate-densifiers/]
*For longest lasting floor - use potassium silicate, which penetrates more. [https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2199/finishing-concrete-floors-with-silicate-densifiers/]. For shiniest use lithium.
*Densifier seals cracks up to 0.7 mm  [https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2199/finishing-concrete-floors-with-silicate-densifiers/]
*Use cementitious filler for cracks [https://www.ecohome.net/guides/2199/finishing-concrete-floors-with-silicate-densifiers/]
=Guard or No Guard?=
*Read more - [https://robertfalzone.com/2016/12/09/the-art-of-concrete-surface-prep-and-making-concrete-shiny-guard-or-no-guard-oh-the-drama/]
**For residential - no guard.
**Guard wears out. Shine is harder and lasts longer = lower maintenance cost + better look.
**And in all cases - it's a call to opensource it, as the industry is 'segmented' as the article says.
=Wikipedia Howto=
*Throughout the process, a densifier is used to harden the concrete surface, which allows the concrete to be polished. A number of densifiers can be used; these consist of lithium, potassium or sodium silicates. In some cases, a grouting chemical is also used to fill in any holes, cracks or imperfections that were exposed from the initial coarse grinding step. The concrete can be also finished with a natural-look impregnating polish guard, which penetrates 2–5mm inside the pores of the concrete to prevent any deep staining from oils and spills. It is also breathable and not a sealer (as a sealer actually totally seals the concrete and does not allow vapor transmission). -[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polished_concrete]
*If you just grind, no polish - you can use sealer - but then it won't be the natural shine that is obtained from going to finer grit.
*Discovered only in the 90s?
*Summary:
#Use densifier - hardens the concrete
#Use grout if holes are revealed. Grout is typically cement+water+sand, or epoxy of acid and oil is expected.
#Use polish guard - to prevent deep staining from spills
=Cost=
*$3-12/sf [https://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/polishing/cost.html#:~:text=Economical%3A%20You%20can%20expect%20to,floor%20to%20a%20smooth%20surface.]

Latest revision as of 22:12, 19 April 2021

Polishedconcrete.jpg.


HintLightbulb.png Hint: Polished concrete is considered a green material by LEED. Polishing provides beautiful finish to standard concrete. It is primarily labor - not exotic materials. 3000 grit is highly polished - [1]

Wet or Dry

  • Dry advantage - no cleanup and shinier. [2]

About and Materials

  • Pads - [3]
  • Amazon - [4]. Hook and loop means velcro attachment of pads.

  • 9 Days to polish -

  • Polished vs epoxy -

Sourcing

  • Orbital sander pads - [5]
  • Use 6 of these at one time mounted to a common bar, if you have open space to work with. Each is under 4 lb, so 24 lb total + mounting bar. 3A each for a total of 18A
    • Hercules- [6]
    • Bauer - [7]
    • Performax - Menards $31 - [8]
  • Start with bulk grinding of rough spots - [9] - using a regular grinder:

  • Start with 50 grit dry - $10 for one - [10]

Diamond Cups

  • Check.pngCome up to 9" grinder size - [11]
  • $44 for 7" - [12]
  • $33 for 7" [13]
  • Check.png$7.40 - [14]

How to Use an Orbital Sander

  • 15 seconds per foot travel rate:

Lessons:

  • collect dust, so you don't get larger abrasive spots from dust clumps
  • Go slow - pigtails will shrink
  • Calculations - if 15 seconds per foot, we have 39 passes lengthwise for one passthrough - meaning 1248 feet - meaning 5.2 hours per 500 sf pad. Save 20% by not doing under stairs and cabinets, you have 4.7 hours per pass. 5 sander gang gets that down to 1 hour. Definitely could use a holder for 6-10 sanders. If they can be ganged - that would be awesome.
  • Don't skimp on the grits - go up more slowly, which is actually faster.
  • Get the dust out - it clogs the sandpaper, and dulls it faster as you need to do more work
  • Get extra velcro pads
  • Store sander with pad on, so you don't flatten velcro hooks.

Other Options

  • Good thread - [15]
  • Car polisher will work, and so will a variable speed grinder with diamond pads.
  • Get this grinder with variable speed can be found elsewhere cheaper. [16]. Pads - [17]. Pad holder - http://www.toolocity.com/4-back-holder-rigid.aspx
  • HF variable speed polisher 1 - $44 - 10A - [18]
  • High speed concrete/steel abrasive pads - 4" - only $6 for 5 - [19]
  • 7" diamond pads are much more expensive - 800 grit for one - $30 - [20]

Concrete Countertop Details

  • Includes filling voids with concrete fortifier + concrete, then sealer, then wax, and silicone between slabs to fill in cracks. [25]

Going Pro

  • 22", 12 pad sander - 500-1000 sf/hr rate - [26]. If there are 8 grind steps - that is a whole day job for 500 sf.
  • 15 amp - 11" width. [27]

Densifier and Guard

  • Densifier - lithium based - [28]
  • Stain guard - waterproof, probably not breathable - applied before last polishing step - [29]
  • Lithium vs silicate densifier - [30]. Lithium penetrates deeper.
  • Sodium silicate densifier - [31]
  • Colloidal silicates appear to be even better? [32]

When to Densify?

  • 200-400 grit step most of the time. [33] Otherwise it doesn't penetrate enough? Or prevents you from buffing properly on the higher-shine grit?
  • If really soft - densify early - so it could be shined at all. [34]
  • How much to add? Until rejection. No controversy on this. Just read the floor. [35]
  • Start with 5000 PSI concrete, not 3500 PSI - it will polish better [36]
  • For longest lasting floor - use potassium silicate, which penetrates more. [37]. For shiniest use lithium.
  • Densifier seals cracks up to 0.7 mm [38]
  • Use cementitious filler for cracks [39]

Guard or No Guard?

  • Read more - [40]
    • For residential - no guard.
    • Guard wears out. Shine is harder and lasts longer = lower maintenance cost + better look.
    • And in all cases - it's a call to opensource it, as the industry is 'segmented' as the article says.

Wikipedia Howto

  • Throughout the process, a densifier is used to harden the concrete surface, which allows the concrete to be polished. A number of densifiers can be used; these consist of lithium, potassium or sodium silicates. In some cases, a grouting chemical is also used to fill in any holes, cracks or imperfections that were exposed from the initial coarse grinding step. The concrete can be also finished with a natural-look impregnating polish guard, which penetrates 2–5mm inside the pores of the concrete to prevent any deep staining from oils and spills. It is also breathable and not a sealer (as a sealer actually totally seals the concrete and does not allow vapor transmission). -[41]
  • If you just grind, no polish - you can use sealer - but then it won't be the natural shine that is obtained from going to finer grit.
  • Discovered only in the 90s?
  • Summary:
  1. Use densifier - hardens the concrete
  2. Use grout if holes are revealed. Grout is typically cement+water+sand, or epoxy of acid and oil is expected.
  3. Use polish guard - to prevent deep staining from spills

Cost