Diesel Exhaust Fluid: Difference between revisions
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(Added some more links under the “External Links” section) |
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*See how far off Stoic Diesel is, if it even is possible | *See how far off Stoic Diesel is, if it even is possible | ||
=On “Freshness” = | |||
==Industry Practices/Levels of Trust== | |||
*The “subjective trustworthiness” of DEF Sourcing as per what [[User: Eric]] has heard in/around the trucking industry etc: | |||
**Worst to Best: | |||
***Open Unknown/Old DEF Containers | |||
***Unknown/Old Pump DEF (aka at locations with debatable quality/low enough traffic it may have gone bad) | |||
***Pump DEF at a High Throughput + High Reputation Place (Truck Stops etc) | |||
***Packaged DEF from a Known/Certified Supplier and within it’s shelf life | |||
****Bad experiences with pump def on occasion have pushed the company i’m with to use PALLETS WORTH of container DEF which is just wild to see, and the containers (short of maybe if compacted down, but they are reasonably crush proof) take up a ton of space, even in commercial trash cans!) | |||
==Potential Solutions== | |||
===Self Bulk Storage+Dispensing=== | |||
*Buying DEF in Bulk for a tank in your [[Vehicle Maintenance Bay]] /[[Parking Lot]] / [[Fuel Farm]] etc | |||
**Then between having a high quality supplier + [[Traceability]] , having a [[Storage Tank Monitoring System]] + Routine Samples/Tests, you SHOULD be good | |||
***Granted investment vs debatable savings is probably what would kill this idea | |||
*Is this regulated akin to Fuel storage/dispensing is the other question? | |||
===Aviation-Style “Test Before Filling” === | |||
*In aviation, fuel tanks are tested with either a [[Fuel Sampler]] (essentially a modified [[Syringe]] ) or a [[Aviation Fuel Tester]] which is a somewhat specialized [[Sample Jar]] essentially (some of which also preform some tests themselves such as Debris Separation and [[Water Contamination of Fuel]] etc | |||
*To an extent a portable tester such as this could be used with a sample volume of DEF first before pumping it into the tank | |||
**The main question is it as simple as an Aviation Fuel Tester (ie “no debris, no water, it’s good!”) or [[Ethanol-Gasoline Blends]] test where a Phase Separation “Crash Test” with Water works, or would it be more akin to testing [[Fuel Stabilizer]] where a proper [[Titration]] setup is needed, as well as reagents etc | |||
**The [[SWAP-C]] of these testing kits becomes a concern too if it is intended to become a part of a driver’s [[VEDC]] etc | |||
***For self storage, most of that equipment could be stored in the onsite lab/in a cabinet somewhere until it is needed etc | |||
===Hybrid Approach=== | |||
*Every so often go and fill 10x (or more if needed) Containers (potentially even reused OTS Packaged DEF Containers), after first testing the source | |||
**These then are used in the same manner as the packaged ones (negating the need for a bulk tank), yet also the need for testing before using is not put on the drivers either | |||
*Only limitation is if there are any rules on filling non-standard containers (as some places have for [[Motor Fuels]] etc, or on how much can be transported without a Manifest (such as [[Propane]] etc) | |||
**Especially if you use approved containers/reused DEF containers (inspected to be sure they are in “good working order/condition” etc) though it shouldn’t be TOO MUCH of an issue | |||
==Means of Testing DEF== | |||
*Your main thing is measuring the concentration of Urea in the (Aqueous) Water Solution | |||
===Refractometer=== | |||
*There are specialized [[Refractometers]] for testing DEF | |||
*These will be covered on [[DEF Refractometers]] | |||
===Buoancy Based Systems=== | |||
*These are similar in form to those [[Battery Acid Testers]] | |||
*Essentially a Dropper (or more rarely a cup) with beads or disks etc inside it that float to marks in a gauge on the side depending on the parameters of the liquid | |||
=Internal Links= | =Internal Links= | ||
*[[Catalytic Converter]] | *[[Catalytic Converter]] | ||
| Line 24: | Line 64: | ||
=External Links= | =External Links= | ||
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid The Wikipedia Page on DEF] | *[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid The Wikipedia Page on DEF] | ||
*[https://www.duramaxforum.com/threads/def-production-expiration-explained-and-simplified.1018743/ A Duramax Forum Post Titled “DEF production / expiration explained and simplified” ] | |||
**Also mentions GM Engines DO NOT work with the “Platinum” version of def | |||
***Uncertain if this is akin to [[Marine DEF]] where it’s more concentrated of a solution, or what? | |||
**Also goes into detail on how to read the date codes | |||
*[https://www.irv2.com/threads/do-you-test-your-def-if-so-how.1952097/ An iRV2 Forum Post Titled “Do You Test Your DEF, if so, how?” ] | |||
[[Category: Pollution]] | [[Category: Pollution]] | ||
Latest revision as of 16:11, 24 February 2026
Basics
- Often abbreviated as DEF
- A Consumable Fluid Used for Selective Catalytic Reduction (SCR) systems (essentially wet scrubbers/gas-liquid contactors, but scaled down) mainly on portable diesel engines to reduce NOx emmissions
- Is essentially an aqueous solution of Urea
- According to wikipedia:
- an aqueous urea solution made with 32.5% urea and 67.5% deionized water
- There are some issues with amonia venting off over time and it thus getting "weaker"
- The injection rate of DEF into the exhaust depends on the specific after-treatment system, but is typically 2–6% of diesel consumption volume
- Commercial Truck Stops Have it "On tap" ie from a pump in most cases
- Most consumers get it in small disposable tanks
- Can often be "expired" with this sales model
- Supposedly small issue with excess amonia out of the exhaust if dosage ratio is off (simple control issue)
- This product and SCR based systems may be be irrelevant if (near)
Stoiceometric Compression Ignition (Diesel) Combustion Engines Can Be Developed+Produced (and thus standard Catalytic Converters can be used)
To-Do
- Any way to sense offgassing? Also what sensors are needed, outside of standard oxy-fuel ratio sensors (ie ammonia gas sensor, liquid sensor...)
- DIY Via pelletized/powderized urea? (aggricultural supply, may store better)
- See how far off Stoic Diesel is, if it even is possible
On “Freshness”
Industry Practices/Levels of Trust
- The “subjective trustworthiness” of DEF Sourcing as per what User: Eric has heard in/around the trucking industry etc:
- Worst to Best:
- Open Unknown/Old DEF Containers
- Unknown/Old Pump DEF (aka at locations with debatable quality/low enough traffic it may have gone bad)
- Pump DEF at a High Throughput + High Reputation Place (Truck Stops etc)
- Packaged DEF from a Known/Certified Supplier and within it’s shelf life
- Bad experiences with pump def on occasion have pushed the company i’m with to use PALLETS WORTH of container DEF which is just wild to see, and the containers (short of maybe if compacted down, but they are reasonably crush proof) take up a ton of space, even in commercial trash cans!)
- Worst to Best:
Potential Solutions
Self Bulk Storage+Dispensing
- Buying DEF in Bulk for a tank in your Vehicle Maintenance Bay /Parking Lot / Fuel Farm etc
- Then between having a high quality supplier + Traceability , having a Storage Tank Monitoring System + Routine Samples/Tests, you SHOULD be good
- Granted investment vs debatable savings is probably what would kill this idea
- Then between having a high quality supplier + Traceability , having a Storage Tank Monitoring System + Routine Samples/Tests, you SHOULD be good
- Is this regulated akin to Fuel storage/dispensing is the other question?
Aviation-Style “Test Before Filling”
- In aviation, fuel tanks are tested with either a Fuel Sampler (essentially a modified Syringe ) or a Aviation Fuel Tester which is a somewhat specialized Sample Jar essentially (some of which also preform some tests themselves such as Debris Separation and Water Contamination of Fuel etc
- To an extent a portable tester such as this could be used with a sample volume of DEF first before pumping it into the tank
- The main question is it as simple as an Aviation Fuel Tester (ie “no debris, no water, it’s good!”) or Ethanol-Gasoline Blends test where a Phase Separation “Crash Test” with Water works, or would it be more akin to testing Fuel Stabilizer where a proper Titration setup is needed, as well as reagents etc
- The SWAP-C of these testing kits becomes a concern too if it is intended to become a part of a driver’s VEDC etc
- For self storage, most of that equipment could be stored in the onsite lab/in a cabinet somewhere until it is needed etc
Hybrid Approach
- Every so often go and fill 10x (or more if needed) Containers (potentially even reused OTS Packaged DEF Containers), after first testing the source
- These then are used in the same manner as the packaged ones (negating the need for a bulk tank), yet also the need for testing before using is not put on the drivers either
- Only limitation is if there are any rules on filling non-standard containers (as some places have for Motor Fuels etc, or on how much can be transported without a Manifest (such as Propane etc)
- Especially if you use approved containers/reused DEF containers (inspected to be sure they are in “good working order/condition” etc) though it shouldn’t be TOO MUCH of an issue
Means of Testing DEF
- Your main thing is measuring the concentration of Urea in the (Aqueous) Water Solution
Refractometer
- There are specialized Refractometers for testing DEF
- These will be covered on DEF Refractometers
Buoancy Based Systems
- These are similar in form to those Battery Acid Testers
- Essentially a Dropper (or more rarely a cup) with beads or disks etc inside it that float to marks in a gauge on the side depending on the parameters of the liquid
Internal Links
External Links
- The Wikipedia Page on DEF
- A Duramax Forum Post Titled “DEF production / expiration explained and simplified”
- Also mentions GM Engines DO NOT work with the “Platinum” version of def
- Uncertain if this is akin to Marine DEF where it’s more concentrated of a solution, or what?
- Also goes into detail on how to read the date codes
- Also mentions GM Engines DO NOT work with the “Platinum” version of def
- An iRV2 Forum Post Titled “Do You Test Your DEF, if so, how?”