Cut From Freenode RepRap 22 Dec

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[20:58] <tobben_> How many prusa, prusa i2, prusa i3 machines do you guys think have been built?

[20:58] <foxtrotfire> more than 2

[20:58] <GearheadRed1> prusa models specifically or all the sub-flavors that evolved from them too?

[20:58] <tobben_> including every sub flavor...

[20:59] <GearheadRed1> impossible to count realistically, but 3d hubs can give a relative idea

[20:59] <FalconsFly> gee thanks gthx

[20:59] <tobben_> I heard Jo Prusa here:

[20:59] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: The lift in that picture is definitely from uneven heating. The front side of my heated bed is cooler than the rear. :\

[20:59] <tobben_> minute 15...

[20:59] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: i didnt even notice any lifting

[21:00] <tamarin> There's some lift.

[21:00] <foxtrotfire> oh dear

[21:00] <quillford> tamarin: better send back the printer :P

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[21:00] <tobben_> Josef Prusa says there's guesstimates of 7000 - 8000, or he says 70 000 - 80 000, I would like to know which of them is correct...

[21:00] <tamarin> quillford: They did try to get me just to send back only the bed assembly.... but yea, whole printer. :P

[21:01] <foxtrotfire> starting to look good

[21:01] <tamarin> tobben_: There's no telling. You could try to somehow infer it from vendors who sell clones, but that's probably not helpful. :P

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[21:02] <GearheadRed1> i would probably lean towards the 70,000 range including all the sub flavors

[21:02] <tobben_> tamarin: thx, yeah counting is so hard

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[21:03] <tamarin> You could almost make a less nonsensical number with something like "Number of installs of Debian", but you still have forks, clones, customs, how many were produced, etc. Same with the i3, etc.

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[21:04] <tamarin> Maybe you could collapse the 3dHubs printer and try a per-capita thing? :P

[21:04] <i-make-robots> Hi! Where in the marlin code base is target[] defined?

[21:04] <GearheadRed1> knowing that its a thing worldwide for 3d printers 7000 seems quite low, 3d hubs has over 1k prusa i3 models registered alone, over 250 i3 hephestos....

[21:04] <tamarin> er, 3dhubs printer analytics thing. This -

[21:05] <UMGeek> lol

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[21:06] <FalconsFly> are there commands in marlin firmware to designate a specific print area on the print bed?

[21:06] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: re: 3dhubs, I still don't know what a "Prusa Steel" is. I wonder if people just hit that semi-randomly.

[21:06] <tobben_> thx!

[21:06] <pwillard> I'm not even on the list

[21:06] <UMGeek> all metal prusa frame from single piece of metal, its heavier but much sturdier

[21:06] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: i think its the steel plate prusa i3?

[21:06] <UMGeek> if you click on the listing on that page

[21:06] <UMGeek> it will take you to a wiki on it

[21:07] <pwillard> the opposite of acrylic prusa

[21:07] <tamarin> Yea, I mean I know that... but what I meant was: I think people with a Hesphestos (for example) just whack Prusa i3.

[21:07] <tamarin> Er, Prusa Steel, I mean.

[21:07] <GearheadRed1> everyone loves acrylic

[21:07] <GearheadRed1> so pretty

[21:07] <GearheadRed1> and rigid

[21:07] <pwillard> rigid my a$$

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[21:07] <tamarin> I prefer acrylic for its heat resistance...

[21:08] <bill2or3> it's rigid, until it's not at all rigid.

[21:08] <GearheadRed1> dont forget its resistance to warp

[21:08] <foxtrotfire> I think a bit of junk plastic just entered the fan that's cooling my drivers...

[21:08] <foxtrotfire> the noise is quite annoying

[21:08] <GearheadRed1> foxtrotfire: probably a good idea to get it outa thar

[21:08] <foxtrotfire> it's still spinning

[21:08] <GearheadRed1> probably bearing dying then

[21:09] <foxtrotfire> that shitty thing needs to be replaced anyway

[21:09] <pwillard> I've had to re-oil brushless fans

[21:09] <foxtrotfire> let

[21:09] <shaun413> what should I print

[21:09] <shaun413> in this nice orange from crunch

[21:09] <GearheadRed1> shaun413: snowflakes

[21:09] <shaun413> in orange...

[21:09] <tamarin> Again re: 3dhubs and the "Steel" thing.... This image shows up for a printer with "Prusa Steel":

[21:09] <GearheadRed1> yes

[21:09] <tamarin> wat

[21:10] <pwillard> rip the back decal off... add machine oil... cover with kapton... new fan

[21:10] <tamarin> I seriously think people just whack Prusa Steel randomly.

[21:10] <UMGeek> thats not the steel

[21:10] <shaun413> snowflakes are boring

[21:10] <shaun413> anyone use atomic pla? what temps are good?

[21:10] <GearheadRed1> 195

[21:10] <UMGeek>

[21:10] <pwillard> that is not a prusa

[21:10] <UMGeek> That's the steel

[21:10] <pwillard> crunch?

[21:10] <gthx> crunch is

[21:11] <tamarin> This also shows up as Prusa Steel (note the wood-like steel frame):

[21:11] <teepee> ahh, the second image actually *looks* like a prusa :)

[21:11] <shaun413> 195. ok

[21:11] <shaun413> coo

[21:11] <GearheadRed1> shaun413: i use printbite on the bed at 70c as well

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[21:11] <shaun413> printbite?

[21:11] <gthx> printbite is a really useful printing surface that is reasonably priced and is now available at and is also,566821

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[21:12] <pwillard> hairspray  :-P

[21:12] <tamarin> This shows up as a Prusa Steel: (seems legit). So 2 out of 3 people have plastic or wooden printers that they label "Prusa Steel". :P

[21:12] <shaun413> lol

[21:12] <jnesselr> hairspray must burn

[21:12] <shaun413> i just used gluestick

[21:12] <GearheadRed1>

[21:12] <jnesselr> gluestick must die.

[21:12] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: i think a lot of it has to do with the fact that people can order prints done on specific machines

[21:12] <pwillard> It's just a sheet of PEI, no?

[21:13] <jnesselr> pwillard: I use PEI only

[21:13] <GearheadRed1> so mis-labeling them if the person ordering does not pay attention nets them an extra order

[21:13] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: So you think it's more people gaming the "brand" than accidentally picking (or being forced to pick Prusa Steel over Hesphestos, etc) the right printer?

[21:13] <GearheadRed1> pwillard: no printbite is not pei

[21:13] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: yea more or less

[21:13] <Kevin`> tamarin: do people on 3dhubs actually look at the printer someone is using? seems stupid. does it require specifying your printer?

[21:13] <tamarin> Yea, probably. That was kind of the point I was going with earlier. :)

[21:14] <UMGeek> Kevin`: some do

[21:14] <UMGeek> I've had quite a few orders based on having an Ultimaker

[21:14] <JK-47> Kevin`: I did.

[21:14] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: steel sounds sturdier and more over engineered than hesphestos to the dirty masses i would imagine

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[21:14] <JK-47> If someone is selling a 100mu on a printer i know cant do that, I dont trust the hub

[21:14] <jnesselr> GearheadRed1: Yeah, the masses really should shower

[21:14] <Astaelan> Potentially less wobble/layer shift I guess. And mornin folks :)

[21:14] <foxtrotfire> morning? damn timezones

[21:14] <gthx> damn, Good morning to you too!

[21:15] <Kevin`> JK-47: print quality is 90% individual tweaking even on the good ones

[21:15] <Astaelan> Well, it's 1:15pm but I just woke up, long night rebuilding PCBot :)

[21:15] <tamarin> Kevin`: I look at the printer. I shouldn't prejudge, but I trust random-printer-down-the-street-whom-I'm-paying-money with a LulzBot more than a Hesphestos, for example.

[21:15] <GearheadRed1> eh, JK-47 my printer can do 100micron layers easily but you wouldnt know that one way or the other by the name of the printer

[21:15] <tamarin> ^ +1 GearheadRed1

[21:16] <GearheadRed1> probably wouldnt even suspect it by looking at a picture of it either

[21:16] <tamarin> I would trust GearheadRed1 and his purple Adaptoflex to print for me.

[21:16] <tamarin> for money

[21:16] <foxtrotfire> Astaelan: my printer is now printing with the original extruder, adding thermal paste to the cold side of the heatbreak appears to have alleviated some jamming. Working on making a geared bowden right now.

[21:16] <Astaelan> I'd be more keen for a few pictures of their prints.

[21:16] <Astaelan> foxtrotfire: good to hear, heatbreak is a big cause of jams.

[21:16] <JK-47> No, but if you are charging more for a printer which can do a certain resolution, or you watch to match their product photos w/ the printer that did it you better be honest about it

[21:16] <jnesselr> Hey Astaelan, how's it going

[21:16] <GearheadRed1> though i did accidentally do 30 micron the other day by misplacing a 0 in my slicer and it was managing just fine before i canceled the print 5 or 6 layers later

[21:16] <Astaelan> Hey jnesselr

[21:17] <Astaelan> jnesselr: One foot in the grave, or at least one eye open *hates waking up*

[21:17] <foxtrotfire> doesn't everyone

[21:17] <GearheadRed1> JK-47: you expect people to be honest on a website that has no ability to truly police that?

[21:18] <JK-47> If i see big chunky layers and an order was for 100 or 200mu, its a 1 star print.

[21:18] <GearheadRed1> JK-47: to be clear im not disagreeing with you here, i know i may be coming off a bit argumentative here, just kinda playing devils advocate

[21:18] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: Lift and squash -

[21:18] <Astaelan> Probably take a little time before people become aware of what's important when ordering 3d prints.

[21:18] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: hey so you do have the same kind of issues i do with large supports

[21:18] <Kevin`> if I ever go on 3dhubs, my printer is getting listed as "custom". let people looka t the actual prints if they care

[21:19] <tamarin> yea

[21:19] <Astaelan> Right now you gotta assume most of the people ordering stuff, don't have a printer or the inclination of what to look for.

[21:19] <GearheadRed1> well now i dont feel so bad

[21:19] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: Moreso if I don't let the heat bed warm up a little longer than it takes to say it's ready. :)

[21:19] <JK-47> tamarin: custom corner on your machine? did you bake the washer w/ the leveling? or still use the springs?

[21:19] <GearheadRed1> also, tamarin how the heck do you remember my printer so easily

[21:19] <UMGeek> Kevin`: but 3DHubs uses printer names so they can tailor customers prints for build volumes

[21:19] <tamarin> GearheadRed1: It stood out.

[21:19] <foxtrotfire> is "3D pen" also an option?

[21:19] <tamarin> JK-47: That's the Mini ABL contact point.

[21:19] <GearheadRed1> tamarin: well thank you

[21:20] <UMGeek> Kevin`: if you have a custom built printer with a tinyass platform, then you wont get many orders because they have a default print size they set for custom printers

[21:20] <GearheadRed1> i gotta brb for a while, pm me if the convo is worth carrying on

[21:20] <JK-47> hmmm

[21:20] <Kevin`> UMGeek: and if you have a custom printer which isn't tiny?

[21:20] <UMGeek> define "tiny"

[21:21] <Kevin`> 14:20 < UMGeek> Kevin`: if you have a custom built printer with a tinyass platform, then you wont get many orders because they have a default print size they set for custom printers

[21:21] <JK-47> what sensor are you using?

[21:21] <Kevin`> UMGeek: does that force me to select, say, makerbot if I want to get large-volume jobs? =p

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[21:21] <Artesian> who pinged me last?

[21:21] <UMGeek> if you have an official printer, its better to list it, both for analytics of 3dhubs and for hub ease

[21:21] <Artesian> MY chat has progressed beyond it

[21:22] <LoH> UMGeek: "Official"

[21:22] <LoH> lol

[21:22] <UMGeek> otherwise, just choose custom and notify the admin when you get your certification print

[21:22] <tamarin> JK-47: The Mini has a ground lug on the hot end itself. The tip of the nozzle touches the washer.

[21:22] <UMGeek> LoH: "Commercial"

[21:22] <UMGeek> happy?

[21:22] <LoH> UMGeek: a bit

[21:22] <JK-47> ohh a mini

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[21:23] <tamarin> JK-47: Yea. :) I'd replace it with a proximity switch if I... I dunno. Had motivation.

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[21:23] <tamarin> I'm actually disappointed to see it in the Taz 6 previews.

[21:23] <jnesselr> I've never had my mini fail honestly

[21:23] <Kevin`> UMGeek: seems pretty broken, since the best AND worst printers are going to be the ones built from junk or old chinese printers

[21:24] <JK-47> im seeing lots of ABL, but none actually are doing any manual leveling either. Isnt it best to still have as level a base as possible, before you kick ABL in?

[21:24] <tamarin> jnesselr: I have the ABL fail every other time with certain filaments.

[21:24] <UMGeek> if you have a commercial printer, use that instead of saying custom just to see if people judge on printer

[21:24] <UMGeek> but i do know that 3dhubs can modify your printers dimensions for orders so you can always print a customer order

[21:24] <Kevin`> JK-47: if you are going to level the base, just don't do abl at all. it will introduce artifacts if your z axis has any lash

[21:25] <tamarin> ^

[21:25] <tamarin> JK-47: *I think* that ABL is a useful feature but it definitely depends on the build. If you have something that can stay level and you know how to properly level.... then ABL is kind of just a waste of time.

[21:26] <merkur2k> auto part distort, whee

[21:26] <tamarin> But a lot of people consider ABL as "software fixing a hardware screwup" or similar. But that's not really what it is.... but meh, I'm not starting that debate.

[21:26] <merkur2k> thats exactly what it is heh, theres no debate

[21:26] <Kevin`> abl is fine if the printer was designed for it.. belt or spring-loaded z designed to run fast

[21:26] <Kevin`> but I still think it's unnecessary

[21:27] <JK-47> bbiab

[21:27] <tamarin> At the end of the day, there is no argument that ABL makes printers more accessible so... there's that. :P

[21:27] <EULAreader> Where can I get cheap filliment?

[21:27] <JK-47> my taz cant stay level. but, soon. ongoing fixups.

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[21:27] <jnesselr> tamarin: That's true. I'm sorry about your issues there.

[21:28] <tamarin> jnesselr: hm? Did you sabotage my ABL? :)

[21:29] <pwillard> Man. I haven't had to re-level in months

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[21:31] <jnesselr> tamarin: Y...Yes

[21:31] <tamarin> you jerk

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[21:33] <tamarin> jnesselr: Just watch it when it ABLs, especially if it's been in use for a while. Or it will write its name in the PEI. And then you'll call support to find out when the PEI sheets will be available again. They will tell you a weird story about drying PEI and how tons were shipped defective.

[21:33] <tamarin> And then ask you to send the entire bed assembly back.

[21:33] <tamarin> I just want the $25 sheet. :P

[21:33] <icecube45> g91?

[21:33] <gthx> g91 is relative positioning

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[21:34] <Ephemeris> I'm curious, how do you keep the PEI down flat?

[21:35] <tamarin> Ephemeris: Adhesive.

[21:35] <jnesselr> tamarin: A) I can drive up there. B) I've put PEI on my bed manually, so....

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[21:35] <jnesselr> Ephemeris: You use a special adhesive

[21:35] <Ephemeris> ohhh

[21:35] <tamarin> jnesselr: Exactly. I just wanted the precut sheet and adhesive and they were trying to replace my whole bed assembly. :P

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[21:35] <Ephemeris> So you cant flex to pop the piece off when it cools

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[21:36] <tamarin> Ephemeris: No. Generally, it's glued to borosilicate glass.

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[21:36] <tamarin> Ephemeris: If you want something flexible check out ZebraPlate. It's kind of neat.

[21:36] <jnesselr> tamarin: They stock just the adhesive and PEI now

[21:37] <tamarin> Yea. This was months ago when they were out of stock. I just got an email yesterday that it's back in stock (again) and I still haven't ordered it....

[21:37] <jnesselr> Yeah, but I find it usually pops up decently on its own

[21:37] <jnesselr> The one thing they do on site, is they heat up the mini bed right after they apply it.

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[21:37] <jnesselr> so it doesn't have that moisture issue as much

[21:38] <Ephemeris> Thanks I was thinking about making a PEI bed for my BigBox for printing n-vent

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[21:39] <tamarin> Ephemeris: PEI is great stuff. Just watch the PET and NinjaFlex...

[21:39] <jnesselr> Ephemeris: Get the 3M adhesive Tabe 468MP stuff.

[21:40] <YellowGTO> Oh wow

[21:40] <jnesselr> Don't print PET on it

[21:40] <Smugtrio> pet+pei = no bueno?

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[21:41] <pwillard> ew really?

[21:41] <DaveOB> hi all

[21:41] <tamarin> Smugtrio: Some PET will come off, others not so much... not sure if it's the PETG mixture or what, but my results have not been the happiest with PET+PEI.

[21:41] <pwillard> fusion?

[21:41] <YellowGTO> E3D comes with some ptfe tubing :D

[21:41] <bill2or3> pet sticks like hell to PEI, way way way too much

[21:41] <pwillard> yikes

[21:41] <jnesselr> well yeah, it bonds to it basically

[21:41] <bill2or3> I put some tape down over the pei when printing PetG

[21:42] <tamarin> If you do manage to get it apart you'll have ruined the PEI by deforming, scratching, etc.... :\

[21:42] <YellowGTO> Well

[21:42] <YellowGTO> I think im done

[21:42] <tamarin> Blue tape + PEI for PET is good times.

[21:42] <quillford> I had to melt a small bit of petg that got stuck to my pei

[21:42] <tamarin> I blue tape ninjaflex, too.

[21:42] <jnesselr> Also, this is the stuff you want to get:

[21:42] <jnesselr> That's what Lulzbot uses essentially

[21:42] <tamarin> 0.03" PEI?

[21:43] <tamarin> I can't link at the moment.

[21:43] <pwillard> how do you stick it?

[21:43] <quillford> double sided tape

[21:43] <jnesselr> It's really fun, because if you score PEI, it'll crack when you bend it along that score

[21:43] <jnesselr> pwillard: 3M 468MP