Troy on Appropriate Farm Equipment for Organic Soybeans + Tractor Request
16:35] <hozer> hello!
[16:35] <hozer> nice to finally (virtually) meet you
[16:36] <hozer> So is there a OSE tractor that can lift a 2000lb pallet
[16:37] <hozer> cause I need to get some of these http://www.bulkcontainerexpress.com/p/BH574565-HB.html?gclid=CIjMtqPCj8MCFdE-MgodlkoAEg and I don't have a good way to move them around without buying a tracked skidloader or a telehandler
[16:38] <marcin____> Yes, LifeTrac 5 and 6 do that. Not a product release yet. CEB Press, Power Cube only as of now.
[16:39] <marcin____> This year we'll upgrade the tractor to release status.
[16:39] <hozer> I would also love to see an OSE design based on a 4-wheel steer platform like this: http://www.farmersguardian.com/from-tractor-to-telehandler-the-landini-powerlift-is-a-mixed-bag/16717.article
[16:41] <marcin____> All 4 wheels steer?
[16:41] <marcin____> Do you have a business model that you can share on the soybeans?
[16:42] <hozer> yes
[16:42] <hozer> makes the axles more complicated, but I think it makes the rest of the vehicle design a lot nicer
[16:42] <hozer> so the thing about tractors, is you have to get in and out a lot
[16:43] <hozer> and this looks good for the loader angle http://d17kynu4zpq5hy.cloudfront.net/igi/opensourceecology/Zkcif6NY5GENPOBw.standard
[16:43] <hozer> but what I see on some versions is the pivot point for the lift is a lot higher
[16:45] <hozer> re: business model: sell soybeans to people that eat them
[16:45] <hozer> instead of to processors and distributors
[16:45] <marcin____> Right. I mean http://www.farmmarketingsolutions.com/how-to-start-a-farm/12-month-farm-finance-challenge/
[16:47] <marcin____> Ok. Can you join our Tractor Review Team? We don't have formalized protocols, but we want to get our stuff reviewed by users and experts so we deliver. It's test-driven development.
[16:47] <hozer> so how do I get one to northern iowa and start breaking it ;)
[16:48] <marcin____> Did you do any code for Axiom?
[16:48] <hozer> no
[16:48] <hozer> just showed up on their irc a few days ago
[16:48] <marcin____> Same here.
[16:48] <hozer> so what did we both see something at the same time?
[16:48] <hozer> so something about that farm finance challenge makes me uncomfortable
[16:49] <hozer> I don't think I can do it until I am able to operate with open-source finance software. I am stuck with quickbooks for now
[16:49] <marcin____> Our biz model for tractor is we produce one in a weekend, charge people to build it for us, and sell the tractor.
[16:49] <marcin____> OpenERP
[16:50] <hozer> openerp: big and complicated
[16:50] <marcin____> Right.
[16:50] <marcin____> Enterprise level.
[16:50] <hozer> I'd rather use triple-entry accounting on blockchains
[16:50] <hozer> and use the blockchains for commodities trading
[16:50] <hozer> and once I have that, then I can probably start having automaticly generated real-time finance reports
[16:51] <hozer> so right now I am trying to get away from chemical ag
[16:52] <hozer> if I can sell the soybeans I have in a warehouse I have a much better argument about why not to spray anything on them
[16:52] <hozer> so how much would a lifetrac 6 cost me
[16:54] <hozer> and it needs a camera on it so I can stream what I'm doing in the middle of a field to the designers so they know what to change in the next revision
[16:54] <marcin____> LifeTrac 6 was $8k in parts without Power Cubes. Power Cubes are another $4k for 54 hp.
[16:54] <hozer> so 12k
[16:55] <marcin____> Right.
[16:56] <hozer> so instead of me buying a 16 row cultivator for say $10k, could we crowdfund a lifetrac 6 and a 4-row attachement to mow between the rows?
[16:56] <marcin____> We are looking at a smaller track cat model with 27 hp for our microtractor this year, like the http://www.bobcat.com/loaders/choosing/mini_vs_skid
[16:56] <marcin____> So diy metal tracks.
[16:57] <hozer> why not just use the tracks that are readily available for existing track-steers
[16:57] <hozer> you put rubber wheels you bought somewhere on the lifetrac6, why not rubber tracks ;)
[16:57] <marcin____> Cost. Unless you can convince me that the rubber will not eat up the budget.
[16:58] <marcin____> Tracks are thousands of dollars. Ours may be $1k for small ones, but for lifetime design instead of a few years.
[16:58] <hozer> stuff wears out
[16:59] <marcin____> Hey, I gotta go. Can you join when we do the design sprints, for review and design? Do you do CAD?
[16:59] <hozer> the DIY you can build/fix yourself, but if it takes 5 hours to repair the track
[16:59] <hozer> yes
[16:59] <hozer> what cad program
[16:59] <hozer> I'll happly run any cad program that is DFSG-compliant ;)
[17:00] <marcin____> Wings3D, Sketchup, unless you can program a more usable open source one.
[17:00] <hozer> how do I join the group
[17:00] <hozer> I've played with openscad, and FreeCad
[17:00] <hozer> but not with much success
[17:00] <marcin____> See Wings3D. It appears to be a total replacement for Sketchup.
[17:02] <hozer> great, installing now
[17:02] <marcin____> To join, I gotta rework all the communications channels, and set up a complete development spreadsheet - we ran into documentation issues bc any platform only does like 5% of our overall needs.
[17:02] <hozer> okay, find me on irc when you've got something to review
[17:02] <marcin____> In the meantime, what is your email?
[17:03] <marcin____> Are you familiar with Mozilla badges? That's one of the things to set up.
[17:03] <hozer> so what I'd like to do is make a drive down and drop off 5 or 10 bags of soybeans
[17:04] <hozer> hrrm, you want that set up?
[17:05] <marcin____> We need to document the process and then set it up. We operate as a Distributive Enterprise, as I'd like to spawn thousands of OSE chapters worldwide in a distributed way, so we document all our protocols.
[17:06] <marcin____> Yes to bags of soybeans:) Did you spray them?
[17:06] <hozer> they had a pre-emerge herbicide (treflan) and another one before the plants flowered
[17:07] <hozer> all "Generally Recognized as Safe"
[17:07] <hozer> but no glyphosate or GMO
[17:09] <hozer> this is sorghum, it was not sprayed.. http://7el.us/Farm/2014/tn/IMAG1195.jpg.html
[17:09] <hozer> mowing sorta worked, but I need at least an 4 or 8 row rig to make that work well
[17:09] <hozer> and then I might be able to do soybeans without spraying or cultivating.
[17:10] <marcin____> yup, organic all right.
[17:11] <marcin____> So that's exactly the role for ose - develop the enabling equipment. Tractor construction set. We put on 4 power cubes for 100hp.
[17:11] <hozer> but the problem is I have no market for the sorghum
[17:11] <hozer> so yeah, I need equipment that doesn't exist to quit spraying
[17:12] <hozer> and I can't call it organic because that has a very specific (and narrow) definition by the USDA
[17:13] <hozer> so here's the thing: If we could just make an 8-row mowivator that goes on a standard 3-pt tractor hitch, I think you could fund OSE development by selling them to farmers
[17:13] <marcin____> I suggest you come down when we do a weekend work day. Are you up for that?
[17:13] <hozer> yes, when is the next one
[17:13] <marcin____> Or a workshop to produce one of the machines.
[17:13] <hozer> you're in northwest missouri, right?
[17:14] <marcin____> No date yet - we are in planning.
[17:14] <marcin____> Yes, maysville, mo.
[17:14] <hozer> well, it needs to happen before spring ;)
[17:15] <hozer> unless you want to try an organize a build at my farm, which would be a lot of fun
[17:15] <marcin____> Hey, can you set up a Log for this IRC? The discussion above is very informative. Like 'equipment doesn't exist.' That's exactly the thing we are addressing.
[17:16] <hozer> I can mail you the logfile
[17:16] <hozer> just please remove my email before you post it
[17:16] <marcin____> Start working on a design for the rotovator. Show me the concept, specs, etc. Then we set up a development page. As I said, I want to go from zero to built machine in 2 weeks - we are about a year of technique development away from such a velocity.
[17:18] <marcin____> Ok, can you tell me how I could create a log here, like they have apertus? I'd like it continuously updated. I think this will be useful for transparency. That needs to be automated so no overhead.
[17:21] <hozer> hrrm
[17:22] <hozer> so best bet is probably ask bertl from #apertus and get his code
[17:23] <hozer> what is the best email to get you at
[17:24] <marcin____> firstname.lastname@example.org