Talk:Pyrolysis Oil: Difference between revisions

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(Created page with '=links= [http://www.alternatefuelsworld.com/pyrolysis-oil-terra-preta.htm Interesting article on the pros cons and problems and uses of pyrolysis oil.] ---- ''PyNe - The Bioma...')
 
(Added some thoughts of mine + stuff I have been working on)
 
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=links=
The diagrams show vapour/ gases not liquid as a by product... do we need to clarify here?
 
[http://www.alternatefuelsworld.com/pyrolysis-oil-terra-preta.htm Interesting article on the pros cons and problems and uses of pyrolysis oil.]


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I don't think so, the temperature changes causing condensation.  Many diagrams also label the "water bath" section "The Condenser" making it even more self evident


''PyNe - The Biomass Pyrolysis Network - a global network of active researchers and developers of fast pyrolysis, has been established to discuss and exchange information on scientific and technological developments on pyrolysis and related technologies for the production of liquid fuels, electricity and chemicals.'' Interesting table on the various types of reactors and their relative value to difficulty of construction and quality of fuels. [http://www.pyne.co.uk/?_id=69 table at bottom]
Along the lines of pyrolysis oil I have started doing low level reading around looking to determine the composition of it. I don't know where it sits on the petrolium distillation collumn chart.  Also I want to know a bit (not too much as my knowledge of petrochemistry is minimal) of it's chemical structure. I found one Whittepaper, although this waas more focused on upgrading strategies and catalysts than analysis, although yet again that was my skimming as a non-expert so feel free to look into it more.


==From Elliot Hallmark:==
This knowledge would be useful for possible applications.  Upgrading/Cracking (Like the strategies listed in the aforementioned whitepaper) is obiously an option.  Another that I am considering is one I encountered on a recent wikipedia bindge: [[Blau Gass]].  It is a gasous fuel made from pyrolysis of mineral oils.  It's main use is as an airship fuel as it's weight is similar to that of air and thus it can be replaced with air while requiring no ballast change.


here's a pyrolysis machine as i understand it:
So that's my bit as of now, feel free to chime in with more info, corrections, and any ideas/suggestions


1. you need a furnace, probably an old barrel for the outside of the combustion chamber lined with with a fireclay/sand/sawdust mixture inside.  it would have a lid with a moderate exaust port (maybe half the area of the lid is removed), which could be cast out of the same fireclay mixture.  also, theres an opening at the bottom for fuel and air.  you could run it on natural gas, since eventually you'd probably just pipe the wood gas back into it in a later version.
--[[User:Eric|Eric]] ([[User talk:Eric|talk]]) 01:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)


2. a chamber for the to be pyrolisized material to go into.  might be able to surround a cheap chamber with a thin protective coating.  thin so as not to impede heat transfer.  refractory mortar and sand maybe, the mortar is maybe $20 for all you'd need i think.  or you may need to use a large diameter pipe and make a bottom and top for it out of thick (5/8"-1/2" i guess) metal slabs.  it has to be somewhat thick because it will oxidize through quickly otherwise (would galvanization help or would you burn it out?)  at the top there is a hole for outlet, there is no inlet hole.
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3.  a quencher.  apparently the quickness of the quenching is important, as the free radicals produced are rapidly combining to form tar and asphault as opposed to more useful things.  A common way of doing this is to spray a lot of cooled pyrolysis oil into the hot stream within a cyclone seperator (like your flour mill thing).  I don't know how practical that is.  perhaps cooling the walls of the cyclone seperator and the tubing up to it also with running water from your cold well would work.  this woukld need experimentation.
 
4. gas storage.  an oil drum filled with water, inverted and subersed in water.  A large version of how they collect gas in chemistry class.  bubble the gas in through the bottom and you've got a valve on the exposed surface to let the gas out at your leisure.  weights on top of the barral determine the psi of the storage.  eventually this gas might be just redirected back to the furnace, but at first its good to know how much gas you are getting, and also you could use it as cooking gas to displace your propane.


At first i say skip 3 and just let bubbling through the water in 4 be the quench.  then you could weigh the char and the gas and know how much oil you are producing.  most of the oil would probably be in a film at the bottom of the gas collection, but i dont know how the wetness would affect it (i think some fractions would polymerize with the water, or form a stable emulsion).  Theoretically, this would be the best quench as far as surface area of gas to thermal sink goes, so you'd get an estimate of how much oil very effective quenching would produce. then, when you have system data on flow rates and all that you can build a cyclone seperator and play with some better quenching ideas.
Read the Whitepaper's Abstract a bit more, and supposedly pyrolis oil is prone to phase seperation (think salad dressing) in it's natural state.  Got me thinking of either:
#Homogenization (Either Physicall, Chemical or Both)
#Filtration (To Remove Solids) then Homogenization (Phyiscal, Chemical, or Both)
#Filtration (To Remove Solids), De-Watering, Then Seperate the Remaining Liquids, Either by A Seperatory Funnel, Fractional Distillation, Or A Combination of Both, Liquids all Go off to Respective Uses


-elliot
--[[User:Eric|Eric]] ([[User talk:Eric|talk]]) 01:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 01:36, 18 May 2019

The diagrams show vapour/ gases not liquid as a by product... do we need to clarify here?

I don't think so, the temperature changes causing condensation. Many diagrams also label the "water bath" section "The Condenser" making it even more self evident

Along the lines of pyrolysis oil I have started doing low level reading around looking to determine the composition of it. I don't know where it sits on the petrolium distillation collumn chart. Also I want to know a bit (not too much as my knowledge of petrochemistry is minimal) of it's chemical structure. I found one Whittepaper, although this waas more focused on upgrading strategies and catalysts than analysis, although yet again that was my skimming as a non-expert so feel free to look into it more.

This knowledge would be useful for possible applications. Upgrading/Cracking (Like the strategies listed in the aforementioned whitepaper) is obiously an option. Another that I am considering is one I encountered on a recent wikipedia bindge: Blau Gass. It is a gasous fuel made from pyrolysis of mineral oils. It's main use is as an airship fuel as it's weight is similar to that of air and thus it can be replaced with air while requiring no ballast change.

So that's my bit as of now, feel free to chime in with more info, corrections, and any ideas/suggestions

--Eric (talk) 01:17, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Read the Whitepaper's Abstract a bit more, and supposedly pyrolis oil is prone to phase seperation (think salad dressing) in it's natural state. Got me thinking of either:

  1. Homogenization (Either Physicall, Chemical or Both)
  2. Filtration (To Remove Solids) then Homogenization (Phyiscal, Chemical, or Both)
  3. Filtration (To Remove Solids), De-Watering, Then Seperate the Remaining Liquids, Either by A Seperatory Funnel, Fractional Distillation, Or A Combination of Both, Liquids all Go off to Respective Uses

--Eric (talk) 01:36, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

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