Mon Aug 9, 2021
Relevant Links: Apprenticeship Standards, Cornell Law site - [1]
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 Aug 8, 2021, 10:01 PM (8 hours ago)
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- Pay rate for builder: Using WA as I assume it has the highest cost of living of the three options, I would expect a general tradesperson to start at $12/hour +/- 2$. A journeyman qualified carpenter with some real soft skills could justify a $30/hour wage easily. For an entry level vet, using their GI Bill this roughly equates to an after-tax earnings of around $40k a year when going from green employee to journeyman. That said, you can structure it as low as you want. It’s possible to pay less, but we would need to know more about the local labor market conditions in each state to assess the impact on hiring. Of course, my intuition is that the people who apply to this program aren’t motivated by money per se, they want to know their needs will be met while pursuing something cool. Ultimately, the only constraints on how you structure your wage schedule are:
- that the starting wage is above the federal minimum wage
- starting wage is at lleast 50% of the fully qualified wage;
- The final month of training must be at least 85% of the fully qualified wage,
- Employees are guaranteed at least 30 hours a week.
- For a 2-year program (On-the-job training or Apprenticeship), the wage schedule begins with the fully qualified wage ($x). This is what you would pay someone the day they complete the training program or apprenticeship. On day 1, the employee must earn at least x/2. The final month of their training, they must earn at least .85x. Then, when they complete the program and are “fully qualified,” they are eligible to earn x, provided you hire them.
- Everything I’ve just laid out applies to all apprentices, and veterans who use the GI Bill for the On-the-job training program.
- For GI Bill eligible veterans, they will receive a monthly housing allowance directly from the VA, on top of their wages.
- Every 6 months, regardless of how your wage schedule changes, the housing allowance decreases 20%.
- The minimum length of program eligible for the On-the-Job training certification is 6 months and there must be a reasonable expectation that the veteran employee is hired once they are fully qualified.
- If you provide housing on-site, you can charge them as much as you want, as long as you don’t violate any of the constraints from point 1. I may need to dig into this because I’ve never seen an employer simultaneously pay apprentices and provide housing. There is no policy constraint that I’m aware of to prevent you from doing this, and frankly, there is no reason for the VA to really know about it if the program meets all standards.
Yes! I agree - already getting some great feedback just from the simple, vague post I threw up today. There is a hunger for this. You really only need one veteran success story to get the ball rolling. If I didn’t have a wife and baby, I would volunteer.
Attaching relevant federal regulations related to the OJT program and Apprenticeships.
Sat Aug 7, 2021
GI Bill Log.
Sat Jul 31, 2021
Jon Miller
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to Jesse, Brian, me, David
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Marcin,
TL;DR: Before veterans can use their GI Bill to attend OSE programs, one of the following must occur:
- Education certification—OSE must either fall under UMKC, or initiate the 2 year process through the MDHE.
- Approval means that veterans receive monthly cash and OSE receives tuition payments.
- Apprenticeship certification—OSE must apply to the Department of Labor
- Approval means that veterans receive monthly cash and OSE pays apprentices wages.
There is a third option for On-the-Job training. The benefits are the same as apprenticeship, but graduates will not receive a nationally recognized credential. Applications go through the VA, not the Department of Labor. Additionally, there is an expectation that upon completion of the training period, the veterans have a reasonable expectation of employment. In theory we can pursue all three concurrently, but that risks efficiency loss as the red tape is significant for each application. Recommend re-assessing after you speak with the Dean.
GI Bill aside, I can still promote OSE through my network immediately. All I need is any web copy or promotional material you want highlighted, or to know if there are any restrictions to what you want on social media.
Response to your questions…
The ask (draft ideas):
- “Can OSE and UMKC partner together to allow OSE apprentices to receive UMKC credit?”, or “What would it take for UMKC to recognize the OSE apprenticeship as a supplementary part of the existing engineering curriculum?
- “Is UMKC willing to cosponsor the OSE apprenticeship as a UMKC certificate program that counts toward an engineering degree credit?”
- “Can UMKC help OSE meet the Missouri Department of Higher Education standards as an approved educational facility?”
Each are slightly different ways of saying, “Can UMKC recognize OSE as a part of their engineering degree program so we can fall under your GI Bill approval?” My thinking is that if the OSE apprenticeship is a part of the UMKC system, the veteran benefits would would be automatic. I would also want to communicate that you see OSE as a combination of education and job prospect that would directly address veteran reintegration challenges. Your “Why” for GI Bill approval is that through veteran benefits, you can unlock human potential, currently hindered by the challenges of military separation for the 140,000 young, uneducated veterans that leave the service each year. I can provide more details if needed.
“What does it mean to be approved by MO Higher Ed?”:
- I don’t know yet - working on it. Unless you object, I will reply to the State Approving Agency e-mail and ask them specifically about OSE (previous e-mail was generalized).
Curriculum Development:
- Existing OSE apprenticeship: The 6-month schedule you have on the website is a 70% solution for what the Department of Labor looks for in apprenticeship applications. We might re-format into Tasks/Required Hours/Performance Measures, etc. But it looks like you have done most of the work already.
- Factor E Farm as Approved Learning Facility: Yes, I believe first step should be curriculum dev as discussed on our phone call.
