Electrolyzer: Difference between revisions

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**Need 3 hours of [[Honda EU1000]] generator - or 2.7 kWhr.
**Need 3 hours of [[Honda EU1000]] generator - or 2.7 kWhr.
*'''500 cc/min - $700 '''- [https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Purity-Hydrogen-Gas-Generator-Stable-Display-W-Pressure-Gauge-0-500ML-MIN/174534291915?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Df70c76fdc17841cdae40edfa64715678%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303581323329%26itm%3D174534291915%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598]
*'''500 cc/min - $700 '''- [https://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Purity-Hydrogen-Gas-Generator-Stable-Display-W-Pressure-Gauge-0-500ML-MIN/174534291915?_trkparms=aid%3D555018%26algo%3DPL.SIM%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20160908110712%26meid%3Df70c76fdc17841cdae40edfa64715678%26pid%3D100677%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D30%26mehot%3Dnone%26sd%3D303581323329%26itm%3D174534291915%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D0%26pg%3D2386202%26algv%3DSimplAMLv5PairwiseWeb&_trksid=p2386202.c100677.m4598]
**x5 = $3500 for 2500 cc/min or 3.5 cu m per day (about 1000 gal propane tank with no compression (thus 500 gal at 4 bar can handle 2 days worth of generation), but if it is solar generation, that is 8 days of storage)) [https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk026QG9BbsZl0rNsBS9KmerMgczY_w%3A1602863734253&source=hp&ei=dsKJX6q8DJDYsAXHkpG4Cw&q=1000+gal+to+cu+m&btnK=Google+Search&oq=how+to+configure+nvidia+geforce+gtx+1650+super+on+linux+mint&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoOCAAQ6gIQtAIQmgEQ5QI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToFCAAQsQM6AggAOgQIABAKOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgcIIRAKEKABUMsQWOmzAWD8tAFoBnAAeACAAeQGiAGhS5IBDTExLjQ3LjMuMi42LTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEG&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiqz4DcvLnsAhUQLKwKHUdJBLcQ4dUDCAk&uact=5]. Or 290 grams per day.  
**x5 = $3500 for 2500 cc/min or 3.5 cu m per day (about 1000 gal propane tank with no compression (thus 500 gal at 4 bar can handle 2 days worth of generation), but if it is solar generation, that is 8 days of storage)) [https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk026QG9BbsZl0rNsBS9KmerMgczY_w%3A1602863734253&source=hp&ei=dsKJX6q8DJDYsAXHkpG4Cw&q=1000+gal+to+cu+m&btnK=Google+Search&oq=how+to+configure+nvidia+geforce+gtx+1650+super+on+linux+mint&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoOCAAQ6gIQtAIQmgEQ5QI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToFCAAQsQM6AggAOgQIABAKOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgcIIRAKEKABUMsQWOmzAWD8tAFoBnAAeACAAeQGiAGhS5IBDTExLjQ3LjMuMi42LTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEG&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiqz4DcvLnsAhUQLKwKHUdJBLcQ4dUDCAk&uact=5]. Or 290 grams per day (kg of hydrogen is about 11 cu m [https://www.ebay.com/itm/255105178473?hash=item3b65741b69:g:ZhAAAOSwiKthI2IF])
*Power extraction - If 0.6 gal used for 7 hours at 1/4 power with [[Honda EU1000]] - the gen set can do 7 hours at 200W. Or 1.4 kWhr. It advertises 3.2 hours at full power - or nearly 3 kW. Note that 3.2 hours at rated load of 900W - nearly 3 kWhr - on 0.6 gal gas. So it's more efficient to run at full power, which wastes less energy due to 'reciprocating pump loss'.
*Power extraction - If 0.6 gal used for 7 hours at 1/4 power with [[Honda EU1000]] - the gen set can do 7 hours at 200W. Or 1.4 kWhr. It advertises 3.2 hours at full power - or nearly 3 kW. Note that 3.2 hours at rated load of 900W - nearly 3 kWhr - on 0.6 gal gas. So it's more efficient to run at full power, which wastes less energy due to 'reciprocating pump loss'.
*'''Bottom line - 290 grams per day of hydrogen - less than 1/3 kg equivalent - means about one half the 0.6 kg (0.55 gal [https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk026QG9BbsZl0rNsBS9KmerMgczY_w%3A1602863734253&source=hp&ei=dsKJX6q8DJDYsAXHkpG4Cw&q=tank+size+of+honda+1000eu&btnK=Google+Search&oq=how+to+configure+nvidia+geforce+gtx+1650+super+on+linux+mint&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoOCAAQ6gIQtAIQmgEQ5QI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToFCAAQsQM6AggAOgQIABAKOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgcIIRAKEKABUMsQWOmzAWD8tAFoBnAAeACAAeQGiAGhS5IBDTExLjQ3LjMuMi42LTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEG&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiqz4DcvLnsAhUQLKwKHUdJBLcQ4dUDCAk&uact=5]) equivalent tank of the Honda EU1000. Thus, we get a power of about 1.5 kWhr from the daily generation of hydrogen using a Honda1000EU generator at full power. Not bad. That is marginal full power storage from an eco-home with smart energy. If designed for smart energy use, then this solar hydrogen route could be completely viable. Using $3500 in hydrogen generation. For storage in a [[Propane Tank]] - bottom line is  
*'''Bottom line - 290 grams per day of hydrogen - less than 1/3 kg equivalent - means about one half the 0.6 kg (0.55 gal [https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk026QG9BbsZl0rNsBS9KmerMgczY_w%3A1602863734253&source=hp&ei=dsKJX6q8DJDYsAXHkpG4Cw&q=tank+size+of+honda+1000eu&btnK=Google+Search&oq=how+to+configure+nvidia+geforce+gtx+1650+super+on+linux+mint&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCCEQoAEyBQghEKsCMgUIIRCrAjoOCAAQ6gIQtAIQmgEQ5QI6DgguELEDEMcBEKMCEJMCOggILhDHARCvAToLCC4QsQMQxwEQowI6CAgAELEDEIMBOggILhCxAxCDAToFCAAQsQM6AggAOgQIABAKOgYIABAWEB46CAghEBYQHRAeOgcIIRAKEKABUMsQWOmzAWD8tAFoBnAAeACAAeQGiAGhS5IBDTExLjQ3LjMuMi42LTGYAQCgAQGqAQdnd3Mtd2l6sAEG&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiqz4DcvLnsAhUQLKwKHUdJBLcQ4dUDCAk&uact=5]) equivalent tank of the Honda EU1000. Thus, we get a power of about 1.5 kWhr from the daily generation of hydrogen using a Honda1000EU generator at full power. Not bad. That is marginal full power storage from an eco-home with smart energy. If designed for smart energy use, then this solar hydrogen route could be completely viable. Using $3500 in hydrogen generation. For storage in a [[Propane Tank]] - bottom line is  

Revision as of 09:44, 5 February 2022

Hydrogen Generator

Separating Hydrogen Generator

  • Diagram of system - [1]. Paper has info contacts at NREL, and comparison of PEM to alkaline.
  • alkaline electrolyzer stack - price not shown - [2]
  • 200 cc/min at 3-8 bar - $9k - [3]. With 1440 minutes/day - or 0.3 cu meter per day [4].
  • 1000 cc/min - $3280 - for 1000 ml/min - 1.4 cu meter/day. Alkaline, 4 bar. That is 130 grams of hydrogen per day. [5]
    • Redo the same - and 10x lower cost.
    • Need 3 hours of Honda EU1000 generator - or 2.7 kWhr.
  • 500 cc/min - $700 - [6]
    • x5 = $3500 for 2500 cc/min or 3.5 cu m per day (about 1000 gal propane tank with no compression (thus 500 gal at 4 bar can handle 2 days worth of generation), but if it is solar generation, that is 8 days of storage)) [7]. Or 290 grams per day (kg of hydrogen is about 11 cu m [8])
  • Power extraction - If 0.6 gal used for 7 hours at 1/4 power with Honda EU1000 - the gen set can do 7 hours at 200W. Or 1.4 kWhr. It advertises 3.2 hours at full power - or nearly 3 kW. Note that 3.2 hours at rated load of 900W - nearly 3 kWhr - on 0.6 gal gas. So it's more efficient to run at full power, which wastes less energy due to 'reciprocating pump loss'.
  • Bottom line - 290 grams per day of hydrogen - less than 1/3 kg equivalent - means about one half the 0.6 kg (0.55 gal [9]) equivalent tank of the Honda EU1000. Thus, we get a power of about 1.5 kWhr from the daily generation of hydrogen using a Honda1000EU generator at full power. Not bad. That is marginal full power storage from an eco-home with smart energy. If designed for smart energy use, then this solar hydrogen route could be completely viable. Using $3500 in hydrogen generation. For storage in a Propane Tank - bottom line is
  • Zirfon PERL is common electrolyzer separator material - [10]. It is a polysulfone (3D printable) and 85% ZrO2 nanoparticles blend. ZrO2 - [11]
  • Both stainless steel and nickel work as electrodes - [12]
  • Alkaline Electrolyzer Design

Slow Life Electrolyzer

  • Say we want to travel into town once per week - one gallon of fuel used - to travel 50 miles round trip.
  • The $700 electrolyzer gets us 0.3 kg every 5 days. Every 15 days - we build up enough hydrogen for a trip to town in an efficient car (50 mpg or more).
  • We would need 2-3 such electrolyzers - about $2k - to generate a gallon of gas equivalent.
  • If an average person does 10000 miles travel per year - we need 200 gallons nominally.
  • We get

Sourcing

Alkaline

  • 150W, 300 cc/min - $600 - [13]
  • 500 cc/min - $700 - [14]

PEM

  • $34k/2000cc/min at 16 bar. [15]
    • Produces 1/4 kg/day.
    • Lasts 40000 hrs according to internet [16]
    • This is about 400 kg of hydrogen produced - or $85/kg just for the electrolyzer. Fuggeddaboudit.

DIY Separating

  • thediyscienceguy@gmail.com - [17]

Mixing Generator

  • $200 for 6 lpm - but this is HHO, not H + 0
  • Graphite plates work well - [18]
  • Wet vs dry cell design - [19]

Summary

  • 500 cc/min = 0.7 cu m / day [20]
  • 0.7 cu m = 0.06 kg. [21]
  • This means 5 of these give 0.3 kg/day - at a cost of $3100 of equipment
  • Off-the-shelf - 1 kg/day of hydrogen costs $10k.
  • Compare to the Spicer Electrolyzer - which can likely be produced for $100 per cell - and $3k per 1kg/day capacity. At scale, the Spicer system can likely be much more cheap.
  • This is worth pursuing today.